poker news
blondepedia
card room
tournament schedule
uk results
galleries
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
April 27, 2024, 05:52:55 PM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
Order through Amazon and help blonde Poker
2272601
Posts in
66755
Topics by
16946
Members
Latest Member:
KobeTaylor
blonde poker forum
Poker Forums
Poker Hand Analysis
Learning Centre
(Moderators:
Longy
,
JungleCat03
)
SnG basics
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
Author
Topic: SnG basics (Read 8114 times)
pokerfan
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 5620
SnG basics
«
on:
April 15, 2009, 01:39:44 AM »
Bubble of $55 turbo
PokerStars Game #27097905522: Tournament #155933533, $55+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2009/04/15 0:27:01 WET [2009/04/14 19:27:01 ET]
Table '155933533 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: neil_rick (3250 in chips)
Seat 6: Rodd_Hammers (3850 in chips)
Seat 8: mal666 (3520 in chips)
Seat 9: brutalizer20 (2880 in chips)
mal666: posts small blind 100
brutalizer20: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mal666 [
]
neil_rick: raises 3050 to 3250 and is all-in
Rodd_Hammers: raises 600 to 3850 and is all-in
The shover neil_rick pushed last hand with
and was called by Rodd_Hammers with
, the
making a str8 on the river.
Knowing how light neil pushes obv Rodd will be isolating with a large range here especially if he has a bit of the tilt monkey in him, so to our quandary fold or call?
In any mtt im snapping this 100% of the time regardless of the bubble but seing as this an stt how should our thought process change?
Scenario`s are
Call and beat both wich gives us a massive advantage to win outright
Call and lose to neil but beat rodd wich would leave me and rodd both crippled but battling for 3rd (he posts again before me but could fold both leaving him 30chips)
Call and rodd wins outright wich eliminates us with 3rd place $
Call and neil scoops but lose to rodd and we bubble
Or fold wich sees neil eliminated or rodd crippled barring some small split % obv.
Would be interested to see the icm outcome too if anyone can be arsed to crunch the numbers but really want to know your gut reaction.
Logged
http://twitter.com/#
!/@mally666
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #1 on:
April 15, 2009, 01:43:23 AM »
This is a pass in a STT and I don't think it's close.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #2 on:
April 15, 2009, 01:47:39 AM »
Quote from: pokerfan on April 15, 2009, 01:39:44 AM
In any mtt im snapping this 100% of the time regardless of the bubble but seing as this an stt how should our thought process change?
difference between squeaking into the money and 1st place in a STT is about 2.5 buy-ins
In an MTT it's typically > 50 buy-ins.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #3 on:
April 15, 2009, 02:41:02 AM »
Quote from: pokerfan on April 15, 2009, 01:39:44 AM
The shover neil_rick pushed last hand with
and was called by Rodd_Hammers with
, the
making a str8 on the river.
Knowing how light neil pushes obv Rodd will be isolating with a large range here especially if he has a bit of the tilt monkey in him, so to our quandary fold or call?
neil_rick had half the stack he has now when he shoved K4s
An 8 big bind button shove in a must gamble position is a whole world away from a 16 big blind UTG shove where his peers are all similarly stacked.
I think it would be wrong to assign too wide a range to neil_rick on this hand solely based on what he's pushed last hand.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #4 on:
April 15, 2009, 03:20:54 AM »
You should really look at the ICM for this hand coz it's pretty interesting.
I put in the range for UTG as 11.5% which is A8s+, ATo+, KQs and 44+
(This is pretty loose for the situation, and includes some terrible shoves)
I put in the range for BTN as 7.6% which is ATs+, AJo+, 77+
(Again, this is a pretty loose range for the situation)
The result, AQo is a
-7.88%
of the prize pool play
That's a pretty huge number. In real terms it means (if the ranges I entered are accurate) then calling with AQo here costs you $39.00!!!
Change the Ace for another Queen and it's still a fold. With the ICM calcs I did with these ranges, you only call here with KK and AA.
Think the ranges should be looser. Just for a giggle I made them both push it in with a range of 100%, any two cards.
AQo is still a fold. Calling still costs you about $5 of equity.
So what have we learned today kids?
On the bubble of an STT when two players of similar stacks to you are already all-in, get to fuck and muck.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #5 on:
April 15, 2009, 03:27:38 AM »
Quote from: pokerfan on April 15, 2009, 01:39:44 AM
Call and beat both wich gives us a massive advantage to win outright
Call and lose to neil but beat rodd wich would leave me and rodd both crippled but battling for 3rd (he posts again before me but could fold both leaving him 30chips)
Call and rodd wins outright wich eliminates us with 3rd place $
Call and neil scoops but lose to rodd and we bubble
Or fold wich sees neil eliminated or rodd crippled barring some small split % obv.
ICM math takes all this into account.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
Longy
Professional Hotel Locator.
Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 10064
Go Ducks!
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #6 on:
April 15, 2009, 07:33:44 AM »
What tank said, i would need qq+ to get it in here.
Hand was played pretty poorly by utg and btn fwiw.
Logged
TheChipPrince
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 8718
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #7 on:
April 15, 2009, 09:11:25 AM »
This is like porn to Tank & Longy, and they know they're porn, pretty sharp fold here...
Logged
The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
RIP- TheChipPrince - $17,165
pokerfan
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 5620
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #8 on:
April 15, 2009, 10:11:16 AM »
Thanks Tank, fwiw here is the hh.
PokerStars Game #27097905522: Tournament #155933533, $55+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2009/04/15 0:27:01 WET [2009/04/14 19:27:01 ET]
Table '155933533 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: neil_rick (3250 in chips)
Seat 6: Rodd_Hammers (3850 in chips)
Seat 8: mal666 (3520 in chips)
Seat 9: brutalizer20 (2880 in chips)
mal666: posts small blind 100
brutalizer20: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mal666 [
]
neil_rick: raises 3050 to 3250 and is all-in
Rodd_Hammers: raises 600 to 3850 and is all-in
mal666: folds
brutalizer20: folds
Uncalled bet (600) returned to Rodd_Hammers
*** FLOP *** [
]
*** TURN *** [
] [
]
*** RIVER *** [
] [
]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
neil_rick: shows [
] (two pair, Jacks and Threes)
Rodd_Hammers: shows [
] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)
Rodd_Hammers collected 6800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6800 | Rake 0
Board [
]
Seat 1: neil_rick showed [
] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Threes
Seat 6: Rodd_Hammers (button) showed [
] and won (6800) with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 8: mal666 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: brutalizer20 (big blind) folded before Flop
Obv i passed, the atcx2 shoves = -$5 is a bit of an eye opener though tks again.
Logged
http://twitter.com/#
!/@mally666
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #9 on:
April 15, 2009, 01:32:22 PM »
So sick that I put him on 44+ and he shows up with 33
Now I look silly.
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
ScottMGee
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 481
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #10 on:
April 15, 2009, 03:05:46 PM »
I was going to say that I snap call here for the following reasons: -
There is no way that neil_rick has QQ+, hence you are at worst a coin flip against his range. Rodd could have a decent hand, but again most likely a good ace or a small pocker pair.
However, having read the post again, I notice that Rodd has you covered, hence I consider a fold here, which virtually guarantees you a spot in the money with a large enough stack to still win it.
If top two only get paid, i.e. 6 man SNG, then I call all day long.
Logged
Longy
Professional Hotel Locator.
Moderator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 10064
Go Ducks!
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #11 on:
April 15, 2009, 03:16:16 PM »
Quote from: ScottMGee on April 15, 2009, 03:05:46 PM
I was going to say that I snap call here for the following reasons: -
There is no way that neil_rick has QQ+, hence you are at worst a coin flip against his range.
Rodd could have a decent hand, but again most likely a good ace or a small pocker pair.
However, having read the post again, I notice that Rodd has you covered, hence I consider a fold here, which virtually guarantees you a spot in the money with a large enough stack to still win it.
If top two only get paid, i.e. 6 man SNG, then I call all day long.
Rodd if he has any idea (which he does as i play 45mans against him on stars) has a lot tighter range than this. In fact 10's is probably near the bottom of his range.
«
Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 04:03:45 PM by Longy
»
Logged
thetank
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 19284
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #12 on:
April 15, 2009, 03:19:44 PM »
Quote from: ScottMGee on April 15, 2009, 03:05:46 PM
If top two only get paid, i.e. 6 man SNG, then I call all day long.
Calling in 6-max with a 65:35 payout would still be a really bad mistake, no matter what UTG and BTN's ranges are.
This includes excluding QQ+ and AKs from the top of UTG's range.
«
Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 03:22:50 PM by thetank
»
Logged
For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
Sack it off
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 896
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #13 on:
April 15, 2009, 04:01:41 PM »
I fold.
I always prefer to do the pushing instead of the calling, and it's much better to guarantee yourself in the money as we all know how heads up can swing either way
Logged
ScottMGee
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 481
Re: SnG basics
«
Reply #14 on:
April 15, 2009, 07:49:00 PM »
Tank, can I ask your username / site? Its just that I play alot of 6 man SNG and would to see your stats.
Logged
Pages:
[
1
]
2
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Poker Forums
-----------------------------
=> The Rail
===> past blonde Bashes
===> Best of blonde
=> Diaries and Blogs
=> Live Tournament Updates
=> Live poker
===> Live Tournament Staking
=> Internet Poker
===> Online Tournament Staking
=> Poker Hand Analysis
===> Learning Centre
-----------------------------
Community Forums
-----------------------------
=> The Lounge
=> Betting Tips and Sport Discussion
Loading...