Do the hands matter?

[Pyso]

Ok, we’re at ALEA on a quiet Monday night, well, early morning.

Table is 8 or 9 handed. Action is pretty loose pre-flop and some big pots have developed with people seemingly unable to fold. Having said that, my image is very tight, as it always is.

After 75 hands or so, I raise for only about the third or fourth time. It is from the small blind (not telling you my hand yet). The UTG+1 had raised to £4 and been called in five places (standard really). I re-pop to £45 and with my image I expect to take this down right now to be honest.

But the BB takes forever and calls. Now UTG+1 (the original raiser) also tanks for ages and calls. Vargas the mad Latvian calls but he will do that with any two.

Everyone else gets out of the way and the pot is now just over £180 in a 50p/£1 game and we haven’t even seen the flop yet.

Flop is 

My position sucks and I feel pretty pot committed now. Nobody seems to have a genuine hand though. A decent pocket pair would have surely come out of the woodwork pre-flop with all the money that was flying in.

I have £87 left and decide for better or worse that I am pot committed, image committed and the only possible way I can win this hand is to stick the rest in. Everyone else had me covered pre-flop and they got their stacks through some pretty shit poker to be honest.


Do the cards matter here? (The key element is my rock solid image and the fact that because everyone tanked for so long, I am pretty sure I am ahead pre-flop)

If we assume I have one of these three hands, does the play make sense for each holding, and if not, why not?  -

a)   KK
b)   AQ
c)   88

Thanks.

[GreekStein]

You're shoving with just about anything you've raised with here.

Not saying I like it though unless you have a big hand. Even then I wouldn't like it but with AA KK QQ etc its fine as Vargas will call you.

[Pyso]

You're shoving with just about anything you've raised with here.

Not saying I like it though unless you have a big hand. Even then I wouldn't like it but with AA KK QQ etc its fine as Vargas will call you.

Vargas folded, but by then the BB had called and so had the original raiser.

The BB had 

the original raiser had 


I will tell you mine shortly

[titaniumbean]

You have to shove the flop considering you say you're a nit and have rr out of the sb, you're not getting folds but if you don't have a big hand you've had a mare.

You've just got to accommodate the very special dynamic Mr Vargas brings to a game. And notice which people are adjusting to the way he plays and which aren't.

[Longy]

As you have said yourself, you have no option but to shove the flop with any hand as you pot committed. Not sure there is a lot else to add, your stack size dictates your play.

[titaniumbean]

And the rr size preflop.

[Longy]

Regarding preflop you contradict yourself by saying you expect to take it down but then Mr Vargas will call with atc. Which one is it?

It is pretty important to know this as it dictates you preflop play, as if you can't get anyone to fold you are doing this for pure valooooo and no other reason. Therefore you must have a post flop plan which in this case given stacks involves never folding.

[titaniumbean]

Vargas makes the 1/2 game at dtd play 1/2/12

he called a £400 reshove against me holding - [  ,  x ]

[George2Loose]

Vargas is a Leicester Legend.

He would perhaps fold the 45 if it was heads up. Obv with two callers he has "value"

[Pyso]

You have to shove the flop considering you say you're a nit and have rr out of the sb, you're not getting folds but if you don't have a big hand you've had a mare.

You've just got to accommodate the very special dynamic Mr Vargas brings to a game. And notice which people are adjusting to the way he plays and which aren't.

I didn't say I was a nit (I'm not but I love that people think I am) - I just play less hands than everyone else so my image in other player's eyes is always tight.

I was expecting one caller (Vargas), not four. The plan was to check raise Vargas but of course we never got that far.


I had kings which isn't really the point. My 3-bet from the SB was too big and once the pot got so big on the flop I left myself with no choice but to shove.

I am bound to appear tight to other players because I would never call a £45 3-bettor from the sb with a weak suited ace or pocket nines.

Not having a go, I wanted them to make such a poor call. My post really was about how even if they had all missed the flop I would still be very uncomfortably stabbing in the dark from out of position, premium hand or not.

[titaniumbean]

Why would you feel uncomfortable you have a  and a  .

Sucks that you lost . But 45 is a good size with kk with vargas there when you're oop. AK is another matter imo.

[salfi]

lol. bad beat thred then.  u play one hand a millenium and get beat oh dear. cant believe i read this as u got all the action u wanted. UL

[salfi]

yes the hands do matter as your gettin it in for value rather then bluffing.  no one is folding so hands matter 12.4gazzilion percent

[Cf]

50p

[salfi]

You have to shove the flop considering you say you're a nit and have rr out of the sb, you're not getting folds but if you don't have a big hand you've had a mare.

You've just got to accommodate the very special dynamic Mr Vargas brings to a game. And notice which people are adjusting to the way he plays and which aren't.

I didn't say I was a nit (I'm not but I love that people think I am) - I just play less hands than everyone else so my image in other player's eyes is always tight.

I was expecting one caller (Vargas), not four. The plan was to check raise Vargas but of course we never got that far.


I had kings which isn't really the point. My 3-bet from the SB was too big and once the pot got so big on the flop I left myself with no choice but to shove.

I am bound to appear tight to other players because I would never call a £45 3-bettor from the sb with a weak suited ace or pocket nines.

Not having a go, I wanted them to make such a poor call. My post really was about how even if they had all missed the flop I would still be very uncomfortably stabbing in the dark from out of position, premium hand or not.

  stabbing wtf.  value shoving isnt stabbing