is this a good spot to cold 4 pre

[outragous76]

my image is mostly solid - final 2 tables of stars 163 - it felt like i should but i couldnt do it

PokerStars Game #41074613738: Tournament #301011255, $150+$12 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (1000/2000) - 2010/03/13 1:31:58 UTC [2010/03/12 20:31:58 ET]
Table '301011255 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: omsk70 (203325 in chips)
Seat 3: RonaldKosh (91298 in chips)
Seat 4: outragous76 (148844 in chips)
Seat 5: Metsfan512 (56185 in chips)
Seat 7: ante_geia_AA (53194 in chips)
Seat 8: JChiles915 (65666 in chips)
Seat 9: mookaramus (64748 in chips)
omsk70: posts the ante 250
RonaldKosh: posts the ante 250
outragous76: posts the ante 250
Metsfan512: posts the ante 250
ante_geia_AA: posts the ante 250
JChiles915: posts the ante 250
mookaramus: posts the ante 250
Metsfan512: posts small blind 1000
ante_geia_AA: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to outragous76 [ ]
JChiles915: folds
mookaramus: folds
omsk70: raises 2000 to 4000
RonaldKosh: raises 6900 to 10900
outragous76: folds
Metsfan512: folds
ante_geia_AA: folds
omsk70: calls 6900

[mondatoo]

Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want

[outragous76]

Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want

thanks for the valuable input

im playing and wanted to post prior to loosing the HH, hence the brevity

[George2Loose]

Need more info on opponents first Guy- your stack size is pretty good to 4 bet/fold- maybe make it 27k and fold if either shoves.

[paulhouk03]

depends on what ur opponents are like
looks very strong tho if you do 4bet

[NigDawG]

well without reads i'd fold...

[George2Loose]

well without reads i'd fold...

Brammer speaks sense as usual.

Think this is a spot you've found because your cards are so pretty when in reality if you're gonna cold 4 bet your cards in this situation are probably irrelevant unless of course in the highly unlikely event someone peels. Had you looked down at J6 off suit in this spot I doubt you'd have put up this post.

[mondatoo]

Don't really see how this thread could be more random,but yeah if you want

thanks for the valuable input

im playing and wanted to post prior to loosing the HH, hence the brevity

It wasn't meant to be an unhappy face at the end of it

Seriously though it's impossible to say unless you give info on players,As George said I'd rather do it with weaker holdings then KQsooted,97green would've had me tempted.It's a fold for me but 4bet bluffs are cool so nobody would say it was that bad if you'd tried it.

[BulldozerD]

i'd just fold - i need some sort of history before even thinking about it

[outragous76]

Ok then  - reads

The big stack opener had been super active 4 tables out when he had a monster stack. He took a cooler and then tightened his belt. Within the last 3 orbits he has doubled thru to 200k and is a huge CL. He has started to open more frequently. I would say he is opening his entire range and some.

Villain 2 - the 3 bettor - he has opened quit a few pots in late position. He has also 3 bet villain 1 twice that i recall - no show downs so he could have had hands. During the course of the last hour i have 3 bet him all in 5 times from his LP opens. The only hand he has seen is when he opened the button - i shipped AdQd  from the sb and the BB snapped me with AQo. I see this player as competant but able to fold.

I thought hard about this play. The way I saw it - if i cold 4 - then it doesnt look like i am folding. However if Villain 1 ships - then I obv do. I guess I am pretty much priced in to call whilst crying if villain 1 folds and villain 2 ships.

I guess my initial question should have been - are the stack sizes right? I say this because my 4 bet isnt all in  - which is pretty unusual.

SO now there are 2 questions:

1.  Are the stack sizes right (to get folds)

2. with reads -  do you do it?

[mondatoo]

I do like the stack sizes for this play and both players seem pretty active so it is a good spot,but as said I'd rather have 97/J8 type hands than KQ.

[GreekStein]

Yeah making it 24,400 or something is fine but I'm folding here.

[gatso]

fold it all day

much prefer to do this with crap so we don't get all attached to the hand and do our nuts when someone peels and it comes king high

[MANTIS01]

If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall.

[outragous76]

If you've pushed all-in 5 times against one of these villains in the last hour what is it about your 4-bet and your image that will frighten either of these players? If I had been 3-bet by the guy to my left 5x recently you can bet I'd be snapping his action very soon. Considering you've been active vs these players I think pure 4-bet bluffing vs sizeable stacks isn't the wisest use of your chips looking at the state of the game overall.

if you are villain 2 what is your 5 bet shove range?

i dont think that there are more than 5% of players who will bluff shove 5 bet here ( and 5% is hgh)  - dont forget if i have bet to 30k - he doesnt have a tonne of FE