Awkward Stacks from MP, in MTT's

[pleno1]

Right, trying to make this a credible thread without it sounding stupid. On different laptop, so havn't got HEM to put hands up, but will find some and post in thread after some discussion.

Basically I am just starting to play MTT's reguarly now and really enjoying trying to work the game out. One problem I do have though is playing awkward stacks from MP. I am playing alot of the $26 games on tilt as they have incred value with so many fish and hopefully will bink one soon.

I am confident about what I should be shoving with anything less than 15bbs, and know how much I should be raising when deeper etc but it gets a little bit trickier as stacks become harder to play

So examples would be, in a full ring MTT, folded round to us in MP and we have a hand like 77-99, AJ, A9s-AJs and we have between 20-25bbs what is the best way to approach. Shall we be playing these hands the same as the top of our range? Raising and being put in horrible situ's isn't very nice but is shoving overplaying our hand? If not, at what point should we stop shoving and opening instead? 

I'm sure I will look back at this thread in a month or so and be like FML, or hopefully it will get bumped after I bink the world in a couple of years, but just looking for abit of advice at present. Even if there's a couple of "golden rules" that people use that I could think about and think about applying to my game.

[railtard1]

never be open shoving 25bb for a start. In mtt's 25bb is a workable stack.
This thread is hard to simply analyse in by any one person, in any one paragraph. The answers to your questions will be different from every player. It comes down to what ur comfortable with. Like with what hands your willing to open, then raise fold to some players, and raise call to other players. Its based on reads and how your perceived at the table. If im opening AJ in mid to late pos, and im getting shoved on, im often fist pumping... but your image may mean its a pretty easy raise fold to certain stacks / players.
I as a basic rule wont be raise folding out of 15bb stacks. Obviously never peel / limp with <25bb stacks.
But the key thign to remember is that there is not only one winnign style of playing mtt's. There is a few well known, big winners in the Uk who play super unorthodox, yet have made money from poker for a long time.
The tourneys your referring to (the $26 fo's on ftp) become really shallow towards the end and require a aggro approach with lots of shoving and re shoving.. my only rule would be if in doubt, take aggro route... fearless ftw..
gl

[NigDawG]

never be open shoving 25bb for a start. In mtt's 25bb is a workable stack.
This thread is hard to simply analyse in by any one person, in any one paragraph. The answers to your questions will be different from every player. It comes down to what ur comfortable with. Like with what hands your willing to open, then raise fold to some players, and raise call to other players. Its based on reads and how your perceived at the table. If im opening AJ in mid to late pos, and im getting shoved on, im often fist pumping... but your image may mean its a pretty easy raise fold to certain stacks / players.
I as a basic rule wont be raise folding out of 15bb stacks. Obviously never peel / limp with <25bb stacks.
But the key thign to remember is that there is not only one winnign style of playing mtt's. There is a few well known, big winners in the Uk who play super unorthodox, yet have made money from poker for a long time.
The tourneys your referring to (the $26 fo's on ftp) become really shallow towards the end and require a aggro approach with lots of shoving and re shoving.. my only rule would be if in doubt, take aggro route... fearless ftw..
gl

finally after 260 odd posts you post something worthwhile

[thetank]

I'd say 13-18BBs is more of an awkward stack than your 20-25BBs.

I'll usually be happy to employ a raise fold line (or raise call some opponents line) from MP with the sort of hands you describe when I have 20BBs+.

With a lot of marginal hands, as you get deeper, it doesn't go straight from open shove to raise-something. It passes by way of open fold.

That's kind of how I define an awkward stack, where you have to open fold pretty looking cards that you would have shoved if shallower or raise-somethinged if deeper. Obv what will be an awkward stack in a given situation will depend on factors, but for me, it generally falls in the 12-20BB range.

I play 45 mans, for larger fields above is less applicable as you can shove more marginal hands a little deeper profitably (sitngo Wiz chipEV mode is more useful), and probably raise-call a bit more too. I dunno, I'm a very specialized player, I would probably lose money in a 44 man comp or a 46 man comp

[EvilPie]

I agree with Tank about the awkward stack size. 20 - 25bbs still gives a bit of wiggle room to raise/fold just one more time.

Once you hit 15 it's time to look for a good spot to 3 bet shove or shove over a couple of 40/20/5 limpers.

If you drop to 10 it's open shove time.

If you run out of chips GG.

[pleno1]

Some nice replies guys thanks. Get my laptop back tomorrow with HEM on so will put some hands in. I agree with Marc in the fact that everyone has their own style/game and I think I have been starting to form that recently.

[outragous76]

playing these spots correctly is Huge in MTT's

I know your question specifically related to opening - but with an 18-20bb stack you should focus more on re-shipping - the irony here that your opening range can get tighter than your re-shipping range

With this stack size being in touch with the ebb and flow of the game is very important. Open raise into Nits, reship on LAG's.

Examples of HH in these spots would help, but remember it is as much the table dynamic as it is the actual holdings

good post Railtard too

[pleno1]

$11 mtt

Seat 1: Sugarlovinlazyr (1,853)
Seat 2: Crazyberny (11,748)
Seat 3: Hero (4,193)
Seat 4: nelitop (4,001)
Seat 5: harley_twins (6,207)
Seat 6: REPVILE (8,968)
Seat 7: Pleno1 (4175)
Seat 8: la_lindita (4,429)
Seat 9: shamiss 1 (9,655)
Sugarlovinlazyr antes 25
Crazyberny antes 25
Pleno1 antes 25
nelitop antes 25
harley_twins antes 25
REPVILE antes 25
la_lindita antes 25
shamiss 1 antes 25
shamiss 1 posts the small blind of 120
Sugarlovinlazyr posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pleno1[ ]
Crazyberny folds
Pleno1 ?

20 off bubble. Have 3bet shoved twice in last orbit to move stack from 10bbs to hear. 17bbs and our M = 7.5

[Royal Flush]

$11 mtt

Seat 1: Sugarlovinlazyr (1,853)
Seat 2: Crazyberny (11,748)
Seat 3: Hero (4,193)
Seat 4: nelitop (4,001)
Seat 5: harley_twins (6,207)
Seat 6: REPVILE (8,968)
Seat 8: la_lindita (4,429)
Seat 9: shamiss 1 (9,655)
Sugarlovinlazyr antes 25
Crazyberny antes 25
Hero antes 25
nelitop antes 25
harley_twins antes 25
REPVILE antes 25
la_lindita antes 25
shamiss 1 antes 25
shamiss 1 posts the small blind of 120
Sugarlovinlazyr posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PennyVincenzi [ ]
Crazyberny folds
Hero?

20 off bubble. Have 3bet shoved twice in last orbit to move stack from 10bbs to hear. 17bbs and our M = 7.5

failed sn hiding imo

[pleno1]

fixed.

[hatthehole]

fixed.

try again..

fold pre cos u have 17bbs + ur utg+1

[thetank]

fold pre cos u have 17bbs + ur utg+1

+1

I don't think this hand is playable with this stack and position