Hand from the $3r thoughts on all streets appreciated

[dino1980]

600/1200/125
Seat 1: Arm0909 ( $59743.00 USD )
Seat 2: HCGrinder ( $75290.00 USD )
Seat 3: Ardorin1986 ( $14918.00 USD )
Seat 4: bobsway ( $21079.00 USD )
Seat 5: solanis ( $17368.00 USD )
Seat 6: jjflex ( $21643.00 USD )
Seat 7: Femidko ( $22594.00 USD )
Seat 8: dino1980 ( $49150.00 USD )
Seat 9: Ravni ( $35968.00 USD )
dino1980 posts small blind [$600.00 USD].
Ravni posts big blind [$1200.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dino1980 [  ]
Arm0909 calls [$1200.00 USD]
HCGrinder folds
Ardorin1986 folds
bobsway folds
solanis folds
jjflex calls [$1200.00 USD]
Femidko folds
dino1980 calls [$600.00 USD]
Ravni checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ] (pot = 5925)
dino1980 bets [$3600.00 USD]
Ravni folds
Arm0909 calls [$3600.00 USD]
jjflex folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ ] (pot = 13125)
dino1980 bets [$8400.00 USD]
Arm0909 calls [$8400.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ ] (pot = 29925)
dino1980 checks
Arm0909 bets [$20400.00 USD]
dino1980 calls [$20400.00 USD]

I don't play too many tourneys so would appreciate some advice/constructive criticism on this hand. In particular, thoughts on completing pre with 40bbs effective? Thoughts on leading flop as opposed to other lines, thoughts on bet sizing on flop/turn and how others would play river. Villain is 25/0 over <25 hands.

[NigDawG]

fold pre

apart from that (which i think is a big leak btw) you played it good imo

[NigDawG]

actually you are probably better bet/folding the river to get value from his 78/89/99/T9/JT/QT/KT/AT

hands which would otherwise check behind on river but call a bet

[pleno1]

yep fold pre. bet/folding river is good too.

[buzzharvey22]

yer i think id prefer a bet/fold line on the river, cause i dont think he has many hands on the river which he is going to be value betting with, certainly in a 3r they arnt going to value bet that thinly, so you will find he will check back a lot of his 1 pair hands, however, is still probably going to pay off a 3rd barell with any 10. By check/calling i think he is only gunna bet if he has you beat, or has a busted draw, which i dont think is too often.

[outragous76]

I like it

If he limps a monster then they ALWAYS lead bet pot - or Raise your lead (in this case) - so id be confident to take him off AA KK QQ

He could have AT the way the hand played - limp pre, call, call, then the paired board can help his hand value

If hes gone runner runner flush - just unlucky

Think you played the hand just fine

I would probably bet fold the river but check call is OK

[dino1980]

Thanks for the replies if we lead river (intending to bet/fold) we should lead for c.15k?

[railtard1]

Fold pre is a huge issue!
So many mtt players complete in the sb when it appears they are getting "a decent price" to do so. The reverse implied odds with a hand like t8o are huge. Your going to flop one pair (which will sometimes be top pair) quite often, and your playing it 4 way out of position.

As played, i like leading the flop, it enables you to play for stacks if the UTG has limped with a big pair. Also (in this comp)  a ton of hands that include a ten will play 3 streets with you. Bet sizing on flop is fine, i may bet slightly more on the turn as there is not a ton of hands he will call the flop with and now fold the turn.
The river is obvioously not the greatest card as jj - aa now beat us and the back door flush has completed. I think this is a pretty standard bet fold on the river. As nigdawg says, there is still plenty of hands we can get value from (a ton of hands that have called flop and turn that havnt inproved)..
Im not in love our river spot here though (despite agreeing we should prob b calling), i dont think he is betting this river unless were beat, or he is a spaz!
Sigh and see 88 or like TJhh! i kinda expect these hands more than jj - AA.

[George2Loose]

can someone please try and explain reverse implied odds to me pls

k thx

[outragous76]

not my work but will do:

Reverse implied pot odds, or simply reverse implied odds, apply to situations where a player will win the minimum if he has the best hand but lose the maximum if he does not have the best hand. Aggressive actions (bets and raises) are subject to reverse implied odds, because they win the minimum if they win immediately (the current pot), but may lose the maximum if called (the current pot plus the called bet or raise). These situations may also occur when a player has a made hand with little chance of improving what he believes may currently be the best hand, but an opponent continues to bet. If the opponent has a weak hand, he will likely give up after the player calls and not call any bets the player makes. If the opponent has a superior hand, he will continue the hand (extracting additional bets or calls from the player).

[Rupert]

RIO isn't that bad given that our hand isn't rly a top pair type of hand and we're getting ridiculous pot odds pre so I think folding pre is a mistake (am sure can drag in skolsuper to get that argument backed up).

The river is an eassssssssy bet for value and checking is a pretty big mistake IMO.  He's not gonna turn any hands into a bluff so his range is pretty much for value and even the nut ten might check behind here.  So it's more of a check/fold than a check/call imo.  But bet/fold trumps both of them and it's not even close.  A lot of worse hands call you and you almost never get bluffed off your hand.  It's the 3r bro, theres lots of calling stations about.  It's important to value bet them.

[Cf]

Preflop is fine. Don't agree with folding and i'm a small blind nit. T8 can play reasonably well post.

Flop/Turn: fine.

River: bet/fold.

[byronkincaid]

Information raises in general: They require a certain amount of discipline on your part to work effectively. When I first began using them, I would often call if my opponent re-raised me and I lost darn near every hand. A re-raise of your information bet is something that very experienced players will do in higher-level tournaments (like $50+ Sit and Go matches), but in lower level tourneys, you usually have to let the hand go if he re-raises. I'm sure you'll run into many exceptions to that, but I approach it this way: My opponent's re-raise has given me the information I wanted - basically that he has me beat - so I fold and go on to the next hand with no regret. When I'm against "sophisticated" opponents who will re-raise as a matter of course, I will go all in if I have top two-pair or better and that either makes them fold or I end up winning the hand because they're betting an overpair. Sometimes they have a set and I'm toast, but that's rare and my 16.5% shot at a Full House (the probabilty with two-pair made on the flop with 2 cards to come) makes the pain bearable.

[booder]

Information raises in general: They require a certain amount of discipline on your part to work effectively. When I first began using them, I would often call if my opponent re-raised me and I lost darn near every hand. A re-raise of your information bet is something that very experienced players will do in higher-level tournaments (like $50+ Sit and Go matches), but in lower level tourneys, you usually have to let the hand go if he re-raises. I'm sure you'll run into many exceptions to that, but I approach it this way: My opponent's re-raise has given me the information I wanted - basically that he has me beat - so I fold and go on to the next hand with no regret. When I'm against "sophisticated" opponents who will re-raise as a matter of course, I will go all in if I have top two-pair or better and that either makes them fold or I end up winning the hand because they're betting an overpair. Sometimes they have a set and I'm toast, but that's rare and my 16.5% shot at a Full House (the probabilty with two-pair made on the flop with 2 cards to come) makes the pain bearable.

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Archive/PokerSchool/PokerSchool-Lesson-18.shtml

[byronkincaid]

wtf boo, you drunk or something, what ya spamming that rubbish all over the forum for?