£2/£5 River Spot (Again)

[GreekStein]

lol GREEKSTEIN, Just dying for a reaction! IL stop if u like??? Just kills me reading it an not saying anything ! Be good 2 know if people think i talk out of my assssss.... Like going back to school!!! xx

No big Charra, I think you're a legend.

I'll prove it to you too. Just give me til 10pm.

[Skgv]

lol GREEKSTEIN, Just dying for a reaction! IL stop if u like??? Just kills me reading it an not saying anything ! Be good 2 know if people think i talk out of my assssss.... Like going back to school!!! xx

No big Charra, I think you're a legend.

I'll prove it to you too. Just give me til 10pm.

sarky f...... !!!! Please no more rub downs been continous from everyone since monday ! even the missus joined the bandwagon..............................

[Numpty Dumpty]

hey mitch,

the safest (pot control) way to play it is to check-call the end. however, i think you are missing lots of value by doing this in a 3-way pot - it is a tough spot to be representing anything really, and not many will fire with the busted draws. small aces should be checking behind you - what would they be hoping to get a call from?

my line would be the same as you, leading the river for value. however, when he raises i think you have to pass - very rarely will this demographic of player find a bluff in this spot!

i really dont like raising the flop and playing a non-spade turn oop

and i think betting the turn is bad. again, what happens on a non-spade river? what do you do against an overshove, which could easily be   or similar? and there is no real need to bet to "protect your hand" as there are really relatively few scare cards.

so..... i play the same as you all the way through, and pass the river.

Tom

[Mitch]

so the BB check/calls flop after straddle c-bets and you call? The hands he should have to raise on the river are 88/99/AA/A8/A9/22 a random 8 and a load of missed draws.
Which of the hands that beat us check call 3way on this flop?? Surely 2 pair or a set raise the flop 3way?

The above post is pretty much my exact thinking and im betting the river for the reasons Tom stated. Gonna squeeze value out a lot more of the time here compared to the times ill get it by inducing a missed draw to bluff imo.

Just couldn't see the guy turning up with a hand he wants to raise the river with that he doesn't want to get some more in with vs a big stack on the turn all that often. On the other hand, I don't really know how often this guys just gonna smash £600 in with nothing. In the end i decided that if hes played the hand that deceptively, maybe he deserves another £380.

As i push the money past the line with a sigh (must get about 1 in 10 calls right when the forward motion of chips is accompanied by a sigh) he flips the old   . Nice Hand.

Pretty speculative on the flop i thought, but each to their own.

Cheers for the feedback. Mitch.

[paulhouk03]

so the BB check/calls flop after straddle c-bets and you call? The hands he should have to raise on the river are 88/99/AA/A8/A9/22 a random 8 and a load of missed draws.
Which of the hands that beat us check call 3way on this flop?? Surely 2 pair or a set raise the flop 3way?

The above post is pretty much my exact thinking and im betting the river for the reasons Tom stated. Gonna squeeze value out a lot more of the time here compared to the times ill get it by inducing a missed draw to bluff imo.

Just couldn't see the guy turning up with a hand he wants to raise the river with that he doesn't want to get some more in with vs a big stack on the turn all that often. On the other hand, I don't really know how often this guys just gonna smash £600 in with nothing. In the end i decided that if hes played the hand that deceptively, maybe he deserves another £380.

As i push the money past the line with a sigh (must get about 1 in 10 calls right when the forward motion of chips is accompanied by a sigh) he flips the old   . Nice Hand.

Pretty speculative on the flop i thought, but each to their own.

Cheers for the feedback. Mitch.

lol

[action man]

ya he's made an awful call on the flop, keep in the game with him and you will have your £380 back in no time.

[keilan303]

i like you shoving the river...I would do the same, he doesn't have to give us AQ does he...K8 is gross and a strange "good" use of position by someone who sounded like he overplayed hands when he hit them...the line on flop checks in but I thought it was interesting that he has found the gear to slow down when he hits trips and let a free river come off (despite the board, is he afraid of going broke to someone on a flush draw??)....judging by him stacking off on 4 flush board before I guess the board texture wasn't bothering him, if you reraised a flush on the river you prob get called... I think player dependent says this is a fold though...I think your hand is pretty under rep'd as played and while nowhere near the nuts, has plenty of bluff catcher potential and it would be a good spot for villain to bluff on the river while you are this deep...but I think that sort of fancy play only exists online....old man raising in live cash game usually "has it"...

[BulldozerD]

once you bet the river i think it is a b/f spot as i think it is unlikely he will make this strong a bluff with the OR behind him and you leading 3way on the river.

[Mitch]

once you bet the river i think it is a b/f spot as i think it is unlikely he will make this strong a bluff with the OR behind him and you leading 3way on the river.

The other player in the hand is not the OR, he was on the straddle and decided to donk lead the flop. I understand where your coming from in a way but i think once the shortie hasnt shoved the turn, hes not going to put it in after a bet and a raise on on that river, so the BB can bluff here without much chance of the straddle guy ruining his play.

....old man raising in live cash game usually "has it"...

Also, can i just make it clear, this guy wasnt using a zimmer frame to get to and from the table, he was just older than your general internet player lol.

[DMorgan]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

[desperadogm]

id lead flop and try get max value from most things + make ur range v deceptive yet easy to play from heros perspective. Sets up good spots to donk flops and sets tuff up in the future. I was flipping a coin on the riverwhen he raised if id call or not, it doesnt make much sense but u just cudnt ever see him bluffing like this...... Play ur aces better next time and save urself the tough decision in this hand =D

[doubleup]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

[Skgv]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

Errrrr live players are in general better at cash than online players imo.

[pokerfan]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

Errrrr live players are in general better at cash than online players imo.

[byronkincaid]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

Errrrr live players are in general better at cash than online players imo.

so the players are better, you pay more rake, you get less hands per hour and you can only one table, yet you still choose to play live. why?