£2/£5 River Spot (Again)

[Numpty Dumpty]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

Errrrr live players are in general better at cash than online players imo.

this is some kind of sick level. just can't quite work out how..

[titaniumbean]

The river is an absolute snapcall against a good, thinking player. When you check call the flop, check the turn and lead the river, what range of hands can you have? Its all pair+draw hands, or just draws. You never have a full house here because you raise all sets and 2 pairs on the flop so you only ever have a hand that can't call a river raise....unless you know that he knows that you never have much here. Then it gets fun.

Think you are way over-estimating live players.  The info we are given about villain is that he tends to overplay made hands, not that he is some sort of multi-levelling genius. 

Errrrr live players are in general better at cash than online players imo.

this is some kind of sick level. just can't quite work out how..

I've been umming and arrring over whether to post.

I think I click the 'this is a level button'.

[DMorgan]

Obviously if our read that he's a good, thinking player isn't correct then a call probably isn't correct unless he's just overly aggressive and spewy (which may well be the case)


My reasoning isn't exactly farfetched though. I still can't see you playing the flop/turn/river like you did with any hands better than yours and if he's getting you to fold the top of your range in this spot then a bluff raise on the river is literally printing money.

[George2Loose]

lol big Charra. I love you dude but you are tapped. Live players are generally awful at every form of poker with the exception of 1 or 2. (you being one of those exceptions obv)

[Skgv]

Once again my inexpierence in writing what i mean has backfired! I shall try to be more politically correct! If u have expierence playing live an online you will have a big edge at making a profit live as online is mainly about short handed games wheres live games can be as much as 10 players wheres a  majority of virtual players will stand out wt there play an phsyicall tells if not expierenced in playing live poker. When i say live i mean cash games not tourneys. I suppose me saying live players better are better than online players in cash games was not being totaly helpfull as obvioulsy online players are talented mathematically better an understand just as much an maybe even more in certain aspects an me being old school trying to be  NEW SCHOOL  maybe makes be biased to the old ways! Always wanted to be a Jedi in Star Wars ! If u go to the biggest games in London an Las Vegas it will be the old school still cashing in on the new breed at the cash tables for many years to come.Sure you will get winners from the online that can adapt an be successful but i believe that the old players will still be there making a profit as well? U hear of many young online players makiing massive money an going broke, How many live cash game pros have u read about in the last 10 years that have gone broke? Poker is a buisness its not a night out on the pull! Longevity is the name of the game not spinning it up then going broke an then hoping to get staked to spin it up again...........like any thing in life expierence is a useful weapon. Once again ill probaly have said something that will get scrutinised but hey luckily for me george thinks im alright as a live player!

[GreekStein]

Online players are technically much better than live players, BUT they often adapt really poorly to live poker.

[George2Loose]

Once again my inexpierence in writing what i mean has backfired! I shall try to be more politically correct! If u have expierence playing live an online you will have a big edge at making a profit live as online is mainly about short handed games wheres live games can be as much as 10 players wheres a  majority of virtual players will stand out wt there play an phsyicall tells if not expierenced in playing live poker. When i say live i mean cash games not tourneys. I suppose me saying live players better are better than online players in cash games was not being totaly helpfull as obvioulsy online players are talented mathematically better an understand just as much an maybe even more in certain aspects an me being old school trying to be  NEW SCHOOL  maybe makes be biased to the old ways! Always wanted to be a Jedi in Star Wars ! If u go to the biggest games in London an Las Vegas it will be the old school still cashing in on the new breed at the cash tables for many years to come.Sure you will get winners from the online that can adapt an be successful but i believe that the old players will still be there making a profit as well? U hear of many young online players makiing massive money an going broke, How many live cash game pros have u read about in the last 10 years that have gone broke? Poker is a buisness its not a night out on the pull! Longevity is the name of the game not spinning it up then going broke an then hoping to get staked to spin it up again...........like any thing in life expierence is a useful weapon. Once again ill probaly have said something that will get scrutinised but hey luckily for me george thinks im alright as a live player!

tl;dr (not gonna tell you what that means either)

[Donko]

Why not RR preflop and make post flop decisions much easier?

Do we only ever C/R the flop with our made hands and C/C with our weaker pairs and draws? Is this exploitable, especially against opponents we play on a regular basis?

I would bet fold river.

[Free_Rollin]

Do we only ever C/R the flop with our made hands and C/C with our weaker pairs and draws? Is this exploitable, especially against opponents we play on a regular basis?

If your opponent is competent, and you only ever c/r with made, and c/c with weak/draws, then yeah of course it's exploitable.

I know a lot of people have said that they don't like check raising this hand, because we have 350bb's, we're out of position and they don't want to inflate the pot, but are you only going to check raise with sets/two pair? Personally, I would like check raising here some of the time.

Also on the turn, you have the flop agressor in position, and the BB also has position on you. The flop agressor only has like £150, and you are never folding for that. So, how about leading on the turn some of the time (if you have c/c flop), because then you are able to see what the big stack does. By you checking and thinking the straddles is going to go all in means you're acting before the big stack in the bb does, and he could possibly raise turn, which puts you in a puke spot. I think this works well when you have a very short stack behind you who was agressive on the previous street, because the standard thing would be just to check to him. But now, you are able to define the big stack's hand well.

[Free_Rollin]

Oh, and as played, bet fold river seems ok. But I hate my life.

[pleno1]

Online players are technically much better than live players, BUT they often adapt really poorly to live poker.

this massively.

i really believe that you should have a huge limping range in a cash game. people play sooooo bad post flop it's untrue and its obv you get so few hands so i think being in as many pots as possible is imperative. so having a limping range that contains premiums and speculatives is a really good strat imo.

obv the fact that live you see the cards you muck make 2 pair all the time whereas online you just onto the next table straight away and live this tilts you sooo much its ridic lol

[Mitch]

Also on the turn, you have the flop agressor in position, and the BB also has position on you. The flop agressor only has like £150, and you are never folding for that. So, how about leading on the turn some of the time (if you have c/c flop), because then you are able to see what the big stack does. By you checking and thinking the straddles is going to go all in means you're acting before the big stack in the bb does, and he could possibly raise turn, which puts you in a puke spot. I think this works well when you have a very short stack behind you who was agressive on the previous street, because the standard thing would be just to check to him. But now, you are able to define the big stack's hand well.

Yeh, I think i worte a couple of pages back somewhere that i was considering this as it also makes sure BB is charged for his draw(if he has some kind of combo etc). Straddle guys stack is pretty irrelivant once we have gotten to this point in terms of its size so think this is deffinatley an option. Maybe something id be more inclided to do if i had a bit more experience in playing with the guy in the BB and knew his tendancies a bit more,

Why not RR preflop and make post flop decisions much easier?

This is obviously an option short handed, but OR's a pretty competant player (at a table that contains other, better spots) and is very capable of a float and/ or outplaying me on later streets when i miss. Also im pretty much guarentted to get a cbet off all his air on a lot of flops and also, my hand is pretty under repped should it become monsterous

[Skgv]

Good points Greekstein an Pleno1 ! Nice to here some useful points an are very true as well. Which makes me realise what i should have said that online players new to cash games live are often to aggrressive when they not need be as alot of live players will make mistakes pre flop so therefore mixing play up an also not being so impatient is improtant! Chuckles u make rofl ! ( i know what that means JOCKEY !!! )