The Best In The Business

[pleno1]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

[Ragz]

About share sellling or running a stable?

[EvilPie]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

How does it work regarding tax? I understand that poker income isn't taxable but when it's a business training poker players and earning an income from those players how do you get around it?

My best guess is that you don't set up in the UK but what about people who do? Someone's going to get caught out at some point I'm sure.

[pleno1]

If I go to the casino with you and tell you "here's £50 mate. I'm going to let you bet whatever you want, but if you win I want the £50 back and half of the profits. Now look, when there's 3 red black comes in usually but use your gut and your instinct, I'll trust you." We do this every day for a year and by the end of the year were in 50k profit. Should we pay any tax on it? What about the same thing but we lose £50k on the year, can I now write this off, poker and roulette (at least in the uk) is considered the same thing.

[Magic817]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

Be interested in your thoughts on stakeback type deals and also on the guys selling the higher variance games every day in the marketplace.

[DungBeetle]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

How does it work regarding tax? I understand that poker income isn't taxable but when it's a business training poker players and earning an income from those players how do you get around it?

My best guess is that you don't set up in the UK but what about people who do? Someone's going to get caught out at some point I'm sure.

If you stake someone and train them for "free" to enhance your return then that is not taxable as the underlying activity is gambling and their resulting performance in that tax free arena.  If you train someone for an hourly fee and then they go off and play off their own dime then that is taxable as the underlying activity is the training.  The fact that they'll go on to use that training in a tax free activity is irrelevant in my opinion and it's no different to maths tutors.

In reality the training will be in the grey economy and be cash in hand so it's probably a moot point. 

[DungBeetle]

If I go to the casino with you and tell you "here's £50 mate. I'm going to let you bet whatever you want, but if you win I want the £50 back and half of the profits. Now look, when there's 3 red black comes in usually but use your gut and your instinct, I'll trust you." We do this every day for a year and by the end of the year were in 50k profit. Should we pay any tax on it? What about the same thing but we lose £50k on the year, can I now write this off, poker and roulette (at least in the uk) is considered the same thing.

Tax free.

[pleno1]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

How does it work regarding tax? I understand that poker income isn't taxable but when it's a business training poker players and earning an income from those players how do you get around it?

My best guess is that you don't set up in the UK but what about people who do? Someone's going to get caught out at some point I'm sure.

If you stake someone and train them for "free" to enhance your return then that is not taxable as the underlying activity is gambling and their resulting performance in that tax free arena.  If you train someone for an hourly fee and then they go off and play off their own dime then that is taxable as the underlying activity is the training.  The fact that they'll go on to use that training in a tax free activity is irrelevant in my opinion and it's no different to maths tutors.

In reality the training will be in the grey economy and be cash in hand so it's probably a moot point. 

So if I "train you" by telling you to bet black ever time at 0:48 and then you go on your own money and win in taxable for this training?

Right now poker/roulette all seen as the same (fortunately) unlike most countries that consider it a skill game.

[atdc21]

I think what hes trying to say is, it doesnt matter what you are training someone to do, it is classed as a job, which is taxable. Staking someone is not a job.

[DungBeetle]

Writing a very big (long) article the pros, cons & misconceptions about staking in poker.

Anything anybody would like to know or that they are interested in me including?

How does it work regarding tax? I understand that poker income isn't taxable but when it's a business training poker players and earning an income from those players how do you get around it?

My best guess is that you don't set up in the UK but what about people who do? Someone's going to get caught out at some point I'm sure.

If you stake someone and train them for "free" to enhance your return then that is not taxable as the underlying activity is gambling and their resulting performance in that tax free arena.  If you train someone for an hourly fee and then they go off and play off their own dime then that is taxable as the underlying activity is the training.  The fact that they'll go on to use that training in a tax free activity is irrelevant in my opinion and it's no different to maths tutors.

In reality the training will be in the grey economy and be cash in hand so it's probably a moot point. 

So if I "train you" by telling you to bet black ever time at 0:48 and then you go on your own money and win in taxable for this training?

Right now poker/roulette all seen as the same (fortunately) unlike most countries that consider it a skill game.

My winnings would be tax free.  However if I paid you £100 for the advice you would have taxable income of £100.

[DungBeetle]

I think what hes trying to say is, it doesnt matter what you are training someone to do, it is classed as a job, which is taxable. Staking someone is not a job.

Indeed.  I re-read my earlier post and it was indeed ambiguous but you have put it clearly!

[Simon Galloway]

So much I could write here, but sorry, I'm not going to.  I paid a lot of money for my tax advice on this subject, would recommend you do the same.  There are lots of grey areas, mainly because the legal precedent around gambling is very very dated, which is undoubtedly to the advantage of those gambling for a living.

Some of the non-grey areas include ^^ you coaching someone for $x/hr.  That should be assessed for income tax, ainec.

Of all the grey ares that there are, Mr Pie was quite correct, one day someone is going to find out how the law works by there being new case law on the subject.  You just don't want to be the guy in the dock while they create that new precedent.  If you do find yourself in that spot, you'd better hope your interpretation of things is rock solid.  I respectfully suggest that isn't currently the case.

For some relevant context, Joe wrote a decent article with some BIM references over a decade a go.  http://www.thehendonmob.com/articles/poker_and_the_taxman.html#

[pleno1]

So much stuff in business and real life going on right now been absolutely swamped all day every day since coming back from Mallorca.

Decided to play a session yesterday randomly though. Went ok, 2nd in 250 6max and then final table of the weekender which is a tournament that starts on Saturday and concludes on Sunday. So it was nice to play a session that i knew I had a final table coming up in a few hours. Didn't quite close it, Kk<jj, but good start to the Sunday.

There is a big tournament once a week on Party, "The Super High Roller" I've played it twice and been chip leader with 15 left twice and bubbled twice. I managed to get in the money this time and despite losing QQ v AK for the lot I won 77 v AK and laddered to 6th for 8.5k.

Besides the 2.6k I was getting deep in the 1k PLO. Ended up beating a pretty star studded final two 10 including Dominik Nitsche, Mustafa Kanit and Ankush for the gold medal and $35,000. Pretty happy for such a great Sunday. Since I've came back from Vegas I've played four Sunday's and had a $20k+ profit Sunday 3 out of those 4. Obviously some run good here and there but pretty content with how I'm playing and really pumped for a huge EPT Barcelona.

Really late here (7am sigh) so going to sleep, just remembered I finished 2nd in chips in day 2 of the winamax main event. So will be back to fire a full session on Tuesday.

[tikay]

Continues to defy belief.

Well done.

Stick to what you know best - poker - you have such a talent, & I'd hate to see you knock it in off table.

[pleno1]

Continues to defy belief.

Well done.

Stick to what you know best - poker - you have such a talent, & I'd hate to see you knock it in off table.

I would like to be able to make more money playing poker than doing business with poker, its a lot more enjoyable, less stress and even mentally stimulating, but unfortunately gone are the days I will make more money by pressing bet/raise/fold rather than trying to get enough Russians/Polish/Israeli guys to emulate what I do at the tables.

Here is how the guys did so far this year:

Click to see full-size image.

My LIFE time MTT graph



Poker unfortunately isn't profitable enough to make this much by yourself, I would love for it to be so though!

Maybe just win EPT Barcelona for $1,000,000 and all will be good.