The Best In The Business

[Doobs]

I'm not sure thats the case with WCG tho, he's a cash game player, and the top cash guys don't really respect the tourney guys (obviously I don't know that for sure, but that's the impression I get and I think pads would agree hence his use of "tourney donk" twice in that description). So I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know especially the online guys.

I agree with most of this.  WCG will have definitely have looked up his high stakes cash opponents.  He is just going to be thinking he is a class above most of the people who he is playing in this tournament, and won't have taken the same care.  Even if he knows lots about his opponents play, that doesn't mean he even knows what they look like.  I used to play in a small cash players pool on betfair and had no idea what most looked like, it just isn't information you usually need.

I'd say there is zero chance he views Pads as "best in the World".

I dare say there is a good chance he'd have heard of him, just that he probably won't recognise him.  There would be a lot more chance he would know who he was if they were on the same start table for instance.

[Tal]

I refer you all to my previous statement.

How can people make extensive notes on players online, work hard to find player-specific exploitative lines and then, when they might play them live, not know what they look like? In a field of a thousand players, there will be maybe 100 who the best player will be wary of in the field. Maybe 20 he will genuinely be careful of in pots, in the interest of finding far better value elsewhere. The pros who've posted are saying this guy won't even know who some of those twenty needles in the Rio haystack are?

To me, that's either stupidity or arrogance. Probably both.

[vegaslover]

Yesterday was the craziest night of my life and without going into details it did involve meeting WCG at around 5am and we definitely spoke about a lot of stuff and I definitely don't remember any of it.

Sounds like Pads been 'got' by Vegas

[GreekStein]

I refer you all to my previous statement.

How can people make extensive notes on players online, work hard to find player-specific exploitative lines and then, when they might play them live, not know what they look like? In a field of a thousand players, there will be maybe 100 who the best player will be wary of in the field. Maybe 20 he will genuinely be careful of in pots, in the interest of finding far better value elsewhere. The pros who've posted are saying this guy won't even know who some of those twenty needles in the Rio haystack are?

To me, that's either stupidity or arrogance. Probably both.

I have some friends who know WCG pretty well - one of my good friends has been close with him for years and from what I've heard he is neither stupid nor arrogant. He is a good professional but there's still no reason why he should know who Pads is.

They may have never even played any hands vs each other as WCG is playing predominantly cash and Pleno tournaments. I doubt either have notes on the other.

Even if that were not the case, Pads and WCG were not on the same starting table. You can't expect WCG Rider to have googled the name and face and dug around for the online alias of every one in the field the day before. That's quite literally a task that would take a very long time and he probably wouldn't be able to complete it anyway. I doubt many people in the world do this.

[Tal]

I get the cash player v tourney player thing, but would he not know Moorman, Brammer, Deeb if they sat opposite him?

You'll be telling me next he doesn't have any live reading skills and just treats the whole thing like it's a table of three dimensional avatars.

I'm not as green as I'm cabbage-looking, you know.

[Tal]

I refer you all to my previous statement.

How can people make extensive notes on players online, work hard to find player-specific exploitative lines and then, when they might play them live, not know what they look like? In a field of a thousand players, there will be maybe 100 who the best player will be wary of in the field. Maybe 20 he will genuinely be careful of in pots, in the interest of finding far better value elsewhere. The pros who've posted are saying this guy won't even know who some of those twenty needles in the Rio haystack are?

To me, that's either stupidity or arrogance. Probably both.

I have some friends who know WCG pretty well - one of my good friends has been close with him for years and from what I've heard he is neither stupid nor arrogant. He is a good professional but there's still no reason why he should know who Pads is.

They may have never even played any hands vs each other as WCG is playing predominantly cash and Pleno tournaments. I doubt either have notes on the other.

Even if that were not the case, Pads and WCG were not on the same starting table. You can't expect WCG Rider to have googled the name and face and dug around for the online alias of every one in the field the day before. That's quite literally a task that would take a very long time and he probably wouldn't be able to complete it anyway. I doubt many people in the world do this.

Right. I must be wrong, then.

Bemused. But wrong.

[Doobs]

I get the cash player v tourney player thing, but would he not know Moorman, Brammer, Deeb if they sat opposite him?

You'll be telling me next he doesn't have any live reading skills and just treats the whole thing like it's a table of three dimensional avatars.

I'm not as green as I'm cabbage-looking, you know.

Moorman and Deeb are pretty well known faces though?  There is a good chance he looked up to them coming up and they have played a lot live in big tournaments.  Moorman in particular has got a book, the triple crowns and is the biggets winner in online MTTs. 

Brammer I don't know, I know he was number 1 for a short time, but he has kept a lot lower profile.

[verndog158]

then again, pads was a high stakes cash reg way before he was a tourny reg wasnt he?

[Tal]

Let's do this another way: pleno, of the top 20 players on the cash game rankings (I assume there is a generally accepted list), how many would you recognise if they sat at your table?

Same question for tournament rankings.

Imagine being able to attach all the information you have on a player to the chap who's sitting in seat five...

[pleno1]

Day 2..

I had a decent night sleep, we went to the gym for 30 minutes and ate well.

My starting table was pretty good. I had weaker players on my right with lots of chips. The only player who really caused any problems was Mark Radoja who was on my left.

First interesting hand was I opened cut off to 2700 at 1200bb. SB who had played very tight so far but was young made it 6.8k and had like 45ish. I had AQ and was very unsure whether to 4bet/call, jam, or just call. I decided to call.

Flop was JJ2ssx and he bet 5.8k and I called. Turn was JJ2J and he bet 8.5k and I called, this was kinda gross, but good pot odds and he could just be trying to get me to fold all my floats. River was JJ2JA and he checked. I bet and he called with A3. Kind of interesting hand I guess.

Almost the very next hand one of the biggest fish in the room opened and I 3bet with AJ in middle position. I definitely was using a depolarised range here and would 3bet as wide as QJ for value I think. He called and I stacked him on J54A vs his A2.

Almost exactly one orbit later he opens same positions and I think a little bit and then 3bet him again with AQo from 3.6k->8.5k. I'm in the cut off and the button makes it 16.5k. This is Mark Radoja. It's a great spot for him to cold 4bet as I'm pretty wide here. But he does have to expect me to call the 4bet relatively often as the hands I'm 3betting are very playable hands. I think my hand is way to strong to fold though. I could jam here as he will be light very often, but I just decided to call and see a flop.

952r and he cbet around 15k into 42k. With around 40k behind. I decided to call, very unsure what is the best line here, I think I could just fold, but I think call is ok too. Maybe in general I'm calling too often on these kind of spots. Turn is 9524 and he shoved and I tank folded. I didn't believe him, but wasn't going to call.

I continued playing pretty solid yet unspectacular. I was opening a bunch and nobody was really playing back too much. I'm sure there was 2-3 interesting hands but don't remember them super well.

Our table broke which I was happy about as Radoja was on my direct left and had heaps. Actually one interesting hand, its the last hand before the break, Radoja just stacked somebody and was stacking his chips on the button, I was in the cut off and the bb was ready to leave and SB was tight so I opened T9o which is fine anyway I guess. Radoja 3bet me and I had around 55k at 1600bb. He was just so light here I was pretty sure of it, as far as instincts go this was about as sure as I've ever been that he was light. I was really close to just jamming, because if hes 3betting like 30+% there and has a super small value range then I can just print, but I decided against it. This summer I will go with my read and just go with it in certain spots, but I passed this one up.

So happy about moving tables I sit down and our table is
Moorman
Ludo
Jacobson
Jeremy Ausmus
Faraz Jaka
Stephen Chidwick

Fun table huh! I had 20bbs and the first close hand was Jacobson opened UTG and I was in the cut off with 55. I decided against jamming.

I played very tight/solid for basically the duration here, picking a few decent spots to 3bet or to raise/fold but generally not trying to outplay these guys . We would be the last table to break so I couldn't hold tight for a table change and I felt fine making tough decisions anyway, but just in general lowered my vpip significantly from the previous tables. I made some folds that previously I would have opened, like I had 33 and 24bbs in the cut off and decided to just open fold, I'm sure people think thats bad, but the hand just has really bad playability and the players behind were peeling alot rather than 3bf a bunch.

I won a few pots here and there to stay with 20+bbs and we were down to the last 75 with 45 paying and Moorman opened from mp. Folds to me in the BB and I jam 20bb or maybe slightly less with 88 and he calls AQ and xxxxA. In the past I really sweated this hard and was like "no ace, no ace, no ace" but I really felt completely fine. I didn't really have any regrets or anything and over the last 2 days I haven't thought once "what would it be like if I had 40bbs close to the money" I always would have previously, but I just felt completely fine.

I busted and couldn't register in time for the $3000 shootout and I also missed the first couple of collosus events, but thats ok. I had a crazy night last night, seriously one of my most degen nights I've had in a long time! All good though, I feel hungover now, but feel ok. I'm kinda glad to get it out of my system early in the summer and will really try to grind hard for the rest!

[pleno1]

RE: WCG

I actually applied for staking and coaching with him like 6 months ago, but he wouldnt do it unless I stopped staking/coaching other people as he didn't want his information to filter down. We have eachother on skype for a couple of years and we actually have played a decent amount against eachother online. He will know my screen name and my real name but I doubt he's actually recognise me by face.

[cambridgealex]

a timely screenshot on twitter...

[Tal]

Is that for real or is he aware of this thread?!

[cambridgealex]

Is that for real or is he aware of this thread?!

Lol, must be a level Tal!

It was a couple weeks ago but saw it bumped today. Not sure blonde poker is as widely viewed as you think! That's why I hand out business cards with my blog url on when I go the wsop.

[Tal]

Is that for real or is he aware of this thread?!

Lol, must be a level Tal!

It was a couple weeks ago but saw it bumped today. Not sure blonde poker is as widely viewed as you think! That's why I hand out business cards with my blog url on when I go the wsop.

Lol of course it was a level. He's never heard of plinop; he's hardly going to be reading his diary!