5 handed re-raise at Bingo time

[OverTheBorder]

First one of these I have done so bare with me, I got a lot of stick for this hand.

Final table of tournament 5 handed, Blinds 8,000-16,000, Average chips 120,000 (so bingo), I am sitting with almost half the chips in play bout 300k, sitting UTG+1

I see   five handed, to me good starting hand, I raise to 50k, big blind, dwells up for ages, then min raises!  Player had overvalued a lot of bad hands and I am getting 3 to 1 on a flat, he is sitting 70k behind, so I can lose an all in and still be left with Average chips.

2 Questions,

Number 1 - pre flop in Bingo time should I just be shipping if I plan to play a hand out, or can I still do standard raises.
Number 2 - do I flat this bet, ship, or fold!

As an added point I have a good chip lead, if I give this up, it will be quite tight and the winner gets an added incentive of a £500 tournament seat. £1,100 to winner plus seat, and £750 to second....so very much a win at all costs type of thinking!   Whats the thoughts?

[pleno1]

you have 300 k
he min raised to 90k with 100 back = 190k
sp between the rest of them they have 100k?

raise to 35k and fold to his shove and snap the shortys who will all have about 30k?

you now put yourself in a position where you're getting priced in to call bets from the only other stack that bothers you.

[OverTheBorder]

you have 300 k
he min raised to 90k with 100 back = 190k
sp between the rest of them they have 100k?

raise to 35k and fold to his shove and snap the shortys who will all have about 30k?

you now put yourself in a position where you're getting priced in to call bets from the only other stack that bothers you.

He had 70k back, so was 170k....rough stack sizes Seat 1 310,000 (me) Seat 2 70,000 Seat 3 70,000 Seat 4 170,000 Seat 5 50,000

[celtic]

Raise less. Fold to the 3 bet from the bigger stack. Call a shove from any of the others.

[EvilPie]

5 handed with stacks as they are I'm never raising to fold.

I also don't like raising to have to call a shove with this hand so the easiest way is to just ship it pre.

Your position is important here as well. UTG or +1 I probably just fold this. Button or SB just ship it in.

This might seem like a good starting hand but at this stage it isn't. It's nice to ship with FE or even reship but stacks aren't giving any room to play pokerz so raising is pretty bad imo.

There's 4 short stacks and any one of them will likely shove with Ax leaving you in pretty bad shape. At least if you ship first you may get someone to lay down a better hand.

[SuuPRlim]

Yeah I think you can go all in here pretty unexploitabley.

[gatso]

I'm somewhat confused did he minraise?

then min raises!  

or make it 100k?

He had 70k back, so was 170k

or both and you're playing somewhere where 100k is a min raise?

and we're in the cutoff here right? either folding pre or raising less or shoving but never making it 50k. 50k's pretty much comitted us with a tez hand and all but the short stack to act after us

[OverTheBorder]

I made it 50k, he made it 98k randomly, so just above min raise, 48k is the bet to call....small blind 6k so 154k in the pot 48k to call.

I agree I got myself in a spot here by raising levels, as as soon as he done it my initial reaction was "Balls" I asked for a count of behind to see if I could flat and get off it with a big miss, or if I had to put the pressure on or fold.

[NigDawG]

you've mumbo jumbo'd up all the blinds/stack sizes so much i can't understand it but assuming you're 5 handed with 300k and the other 4 have 300k between them @8k/16k i'd be open shoving  pre flop.

[the sicilian]

you have 300 k
he min raised to 90k with 100 back = 190k
sp between the rest of them they have 100k?

raise to 35k and fold to his shove and snap the shortys who will all have about 30k?

you now put yourself in a position where you're getting priced in to call bets from the only other stack that bothers you.

This or open jam... dont fanny around with blinds at this level play time is over

[OverTheBorder]

Thanks, sorry for the confused stacks! Just trying to work on my deep in play as it is killing me at the moment!

In short, I decided to peel the flop (awful I know), pretty sure I would have to call the 70k flop shove unless it was a catastrophic brick...i.e. Ace high, no straight or flush possibilities! even then with pain!  Flop comes Q high, big bling shoves, and I insta call!   He shoes AJ Off for no pair no draw! I win although obviously in very bad shape pre!

Incidently, I am assuming he played this hand very badly, if he planned to shove regardless of bricking flop, why not just go all in pre?  I fold and he takes me 50k bet and I lick my wounds!  Wasnt a great played hand by either player!

[Royal Flush]

Incidently, I am assuming he played this hand very badly, if he planned to shove regardless of bricking flop, why not just go all in pre?  I fold and he takes me 50k bet and I lick my wounds!  Wasnt a great played hand by either player!

lol he got someone to commit with a far inferior hand, doubt he could of played it better

[OverTheBorder]

Incidently, I am assuming he played this hand very badly, if he planned to shove regardless of bricking flop, why not just go all in pre?  I fold and he takes me 50k bet and I lick my wounds!  Wasnt a great played hand by either player!

lol he got someone to commit with a far inferior hand, doubt he could of played it better

True! lol

[psustudent]

yea like people said given stacks, raise less to like 34k and fold to this stack's shove and call shorties.

he actually did play AJ bad. for one, not sure if its correct icm wise for him to even play pre after your raise. but say he was playing for 1st, he should really be shipping pre. this minraise with AJj is weak, he doesnt need to get action from you and play postflop, he should be using any fe he's got left and shipping pre.

unless he got a massive tell on you where he knows he's got you dominated which I doubt cus he shipped Q high flop anyway. the point about he got you to commit with a worse hand is not necessarily valid as QJ is probably at the bottom of your range and there's no way for him to know you have specifically that hand this time around. yea he happened to have you dominated this time around but that would happen to be the case far less often. he has to put you specifically on that hand and assume you would call a minraise but fold to a shove and for him to be able to get away from it on Q high flop when he missed for that to be valid.

basically, if you have AJ in his spot, dont minraise. just fold pre or ship it in pre depending on variables like game dynamics/payout structure etc.

[EvilPie]

yea like people said given stacks, raise less to like 34k and fold to this stack's shove and call shorties.

he actually did play AJ bad. for one, not sure if its correct icm wise for him to even play pre after your raise. but say he was playing for 1st, he should really be shipping pre. this minraise with AJj is weak, he doesnt need to get action from you and play postflop, he should be using any fe he's got left and shipping pre.

unless he got a massive tell on you where he knows he's got you dominated which I doubt cus he shipped Q high flop anyway. the point about he got you to commit with a worse hand is not necessarily valid as QJ is probably at the bottom of your range and there's no way for him to know you have specifically that hand this time around. yea he happened to have you dominated this time around but that would happen to be the case far less often. he has to put you specifically on that hand and assume you would call a minraise but fold to a shove and for him to be able to get away from it on Q high flop when he missed for that to be valid.

basically, if you have AJ in his spot, dont minraise. just fold pre or ship it in pre depending on variables like game dynamics/payout structure etc.

This is just wrong in so many ways.

Firstly why is his min raise weak? "He doesn't need to get action from you and play post flop"... WTF!?!? You think he's planning on doing anything other than get his chips in on the flop? There's no play happening post flop here mate.

"he should be using any fe he's got left and shipping pre".... Agains WTF!?!?! You think he wants you to fold? FE is all about getting your oppo to fold a better hand. If he shipd and we fold our JQ he's fucked up big time. You think if he ships we're folding any hand that beats him?

"unless he got a massive tell on you"..... It just gets better. Why would he need a tell? It's 5 handed, he's short stacked and he has AJ. You could be jumping up and down and hi fiving all your mates and he's still getting it in.

"basically, if you have AJ in his spot, dont minraise. just fold pre or ship it in pre".... Oh my GOD!!!! I think my head's going to explode!!!!!!

There's a bit more to rip apart but I'm just off to walk the dog so I won't bother.

By the way. Was this post just one big level? Well done if it was. Is this Rooks? Ha ha!! Well done mate, I love you