The worst ruling I have ever seen and it's me who has to be the victim

[gatso]

what will go first, pennies or penny sweets? I think it was a close run thing with the 1/2p

[thetank]

Doing away with pennies is going to be problematic because of the odd numbered 5 pence piece.

That would have to go at the same time surely for the world to work? For this reason I'm going to go with the penny sweet the first to go.

[thetank]

When I bought my mix up, I did notice that that the chick behind the counter didn't bother counting to check how many 1p sweets were in the small white paper bag.
I announced "20 pence" and was not audited.

They always used to count them back in the day, I wonder if that's because I'm an adult now and so a greater level of trust is apportioned to me than when I was a child, or whether the sweeties are so small now that they look just too much effort to count individually.

Maybe it's a bit of both, with possible third factor being decline in professionalism of corner shop counter assistants.

[geordieneil]

When I bought my mix up, I did notice that that the chick behind the counter didn't bother counting to check how many 1p sweets were in the small white paper bag.
I announced "20 pence" and was not audited.

They always used to count them back in the day, I wonder if that's because I'm an adult now and so a greater level of trust is apportioned to me than when I was a child, or whether the sweeties are so small now that they look just too much effort count individually.

Maybe it's a bit of both, with possible third factor being decline in professionalism of corner shop counter assistants.

when?

[gatso]

Doing away with pennies is going to be problematic because of the odd numbered 5 pence piece.

That would have to go at the same time surely for the world to work? For this reason I'm going to go with the penny sweet the first to go.

yeah, that`d be complicated. like when I used to play in poland and the first 3 levels were 10/20, 20/40 and 25/50. took me ages to figure out why I`d get told off for putting a 25 chip in the pot for my small blind during level 2. never occurred to me that there were no 5 chips so the dealer couldn`t make change

for that reason I`m with you on the sweets going first

[thetank]

with possible third factor being decline in professionalism of corner shop counter assistants.

On reflection I don't think this is very fair.

Business practice in corner shops has changed a lot in the last 20 years. They've much more to worry about now (I'm thinking extra products like lottery shite, and increased customer expectation of speed of service etc etc) and so counting sweeties has perhaps justifiably dropped down their list of priorities.

[gatso]

the dude I used to buy my 10p mix from on the way home from school was blind. I'd completely forgotten about this until just now. you put the sweets you wanted in a little box, I think it was one of the ones that packs of chewing gum come in, then he'd count them out into a little paper bag. then you paid him and he'd sort out your change by feel

[outragous76]

Cf, you can't just start incl rr at will. You either use them or you don't. There are several key differences (such as rules at showdown) etc.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I posted the situation, using the words of the OP, onto a mailing list of mainly US players last night.  I asked for their expected ruling, without giving the DTD ruling in the post.

One of the first replies received was from Linda Johnson, whom I believe is a director of the TDA.  Her reply (posted with permission) was as follows:

I would rule that you did not stop the action behind you before there was substantial action (three people have acted-the two checks and then the bet), therefore the 500 bet by the original raiser would stand and you have all your options open to you now: call, raise, or fold.

This is consistent with what I would have expected the ruling to have been, and certainly seems to apply more 'common sense'.

Note that the 'significant action' element is consistent with Tikay's and others posts.  The actual ruling, however, is not.

[Cf]

Cf, you can't just start incl rr at will. You either use them or you don't. There are several key differences (such as rules at showdown) etc.

Repeating my post as it's now lost in the other thread...

Fair point - DTD don't explicitly use them.

But TDA rules aren't designed to cover everything. They cover tournament specific situations and ignore a lot of the more fundamental rules of the game. TDA rules are designed to work on top of your in house rules. There may be one or two minor differences (feel free to quote me any major differences) - in this scenario I believe you follow the TDA version.

I've looked at DTDs rules on their site. They have TDA and a few of their own house rules, but they aren't extensive enough to cover every scenario - including this one.

The ruling given in OP was because 3 people had acted behind. This rule is from RRs so i'm assuming that's what they're following.

[skolsuper]

Excellent modding.

1p sweets have to go before the penny, otherwise how would somebody buy a single sweet? They would have to pay with three 2ps and get 5p change. I can't see many 5 year olds figuring that out, let alone many shop owners being bothered with it. More likely they will just insist on selling the sweets in pairs, therefore making them effectively one 2p sweet that comes in two parts.

[kinboshi]

Excellent modding.

1p sweets have to go before the penny, otherwise how would somebody buy a single sweet? They would have to pay with three 2ps and get 5p change. I can't see many 5 year olds figuring that out, let alone many shop owners being bothered with it. More likely they will just insist on selling the sweets in pairs, therefore making them effectively one 2p sweet that comes in two parts.

However, if there certain lines of 1p sweets that they're struggling to sell they could always sell three for the price of two, helping them clear stock that might go out of date otherwise and also negating the problem surrounding the lack of suitable currency to facilitate the purchase of a single sweet.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I think the bird woman would be slow to increase her prices because on such a cheap item, an increase of magnitude equal to 1x the smallest possible unit of currency would still represent a significant % increase on a bag of feed (plus she'd have to come up with a new song.)

She could start putting less feed in the bags I suppose. That might work

yeah, pretty sure that`s what happened with the whole wagon wheels getting smaller thing

Was getting Molly a 20p mix up the other day and remember thinking that the 1p sweets looked a lot smaller than when I were 'lad.
Put it down to me just being bigger now and so the sweeties just seem smaller. Seems I'm very wrong, just didn't think about it all that deeply.

I can't blame the sweetie people, inflation is what it is. So I wonder how small 1p sweets will get in my lifetime? Will I live to see the day that they're taken off the shelves (even in Scottish sweet shops) altogether?

I'm pretty sure I used to get 1/2p sweets in my 10p mix-ups as a kid.  Maybe they're the 1p sweets of today?

Bubblegums and gobstoppers were always the full 1p though.

[RED-DOG]

That OJ Simpson one was a bit iffy too.

[gatso]

but they got rid of 1/2p coins before 1/2p sweets. sweets were then 2 for a penny for a while before they scrapped them as well

can't really see the chancellor going 'well yeah chaps, I know it makes sense to scrap the penny but I can't possibly do it until the sweet companies alter their offerings or the poor kidz will get confused'