Travellers

[ManuelsMum]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

But if you detest the islamic religion, and someone introduces themselves as an adherent of it, would it not follow that you then dislike them in some way as a result?

[kinboshi]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Travellers ARE what they DO. The clue is in the name.

Gypsies are what they do?

Yes, to the extent that it may affect the broad legitimacy of prejudice against them. Per my previous post....a large part of their identity comes from what they do...travel. They don't really find permanent roots in and among communities. If a Romani decides to settle in the house next door to acc2020, with family in tow, do you think that the prejudice would still be there 100% in the same way it would with a gay/black/jewish/muslim person next door to someone who hated them? Probably not. The fact that they don't settle/integrate (and maybe by extension don't feel the need to conform to social norms) is what breeds the suspicion and ill-will more than a blind out-group bias?

No, that's 'travellers'.  Read Tom's post above.  Gypsies are a race, you're born a Gypsy. 

So 'gypsies' and 'travellers' have nothing to do with each other then? Gypsies just settle into brick and morrar society just like your average non-gypsy? The fact that people are born Gypsy doesn't generally lead to a set of social behaviours that are different from the norm?

Gypsy a race of people.  I don't know the figures for how many live the 'traditional' nomadic lifestyle and how many opt to live in bricks and mortar houses.  Maybe Tom does?

Some Gypsies are travellers, some aren't.  Gypsies aren't Travellers though

[kinboshi]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

But if you detest the islamic religion, and someone introduces themselves as an adherent of it, would it not follow that you then dislike them in some way as a result?

No.  I might dislike them if they carry out actions that I think are discriminatory against others - but that would be me making a decision based on what they DO, not what they ARE.  There are atheists who I despise, not for their religious views, but for how they act and treat others.  Your faith is irrelevant, that's a personal thing.  How you act and treat others should be how people react and treat you.

[boldie]

@ Manuel'smum

Gypsies and travellers are not the same thing.

What you're doing by calling travellers and Gypsies the same thing is like me calling all Asians "Pakistanies"

[RED-DOG]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave.  

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people.  

Travellers ARE what they DO. The clue is in the name.

Gypsies are what they do?

Yes, to the extent that it may affect the broad legitimacy of prejudice against them. Per my previous post....a large part of their identity comes from what they do...travel. They don't really find permanent roots in and among communities. If a Romani decides to settle in the house next door to acc2020, with family in tow, do you think that the prejudice would still be there 100% in the same way it would with a gay/black/jewish/muslim person next door to someone who hated them? Probably not. The fact that they don't settle/integrate (and maybe by extension don't feel the need to conform to social norms) is what breeds the suspicion and ill-will more than a blind out-group bias?

No, that's 'travellers'.  Read Tom's post above.  Gypsies are a race, you're born a Gypsy.  

So 'gypsies' and 'travellers' have nothing to do with each other then? Gypsies just settle into brick and morrar society just like your average non-gypsy? The fact that people are born Gypsy doesn't generally lead to a set of social behaviours that are different from the norm?

No, Gypsies and travellers have nothing to do with each other.

Gypsies are more often than not forced into bricks and mortar by circumstance rather than choice.

Yes, being born a Gypsy does lead to a set of behaviours that are different from the norm, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's anti-social behaviour.

[leethefish]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

not the greatest post due to the stereotypical debate on this thread

i hope i have taken this the wrong way but this looks like you think people who live on council estates ain't  very bright? and not very upstanding?

[ManuelsMum]

ok tyty

Someone needs to sort wikipedia out cos it's confusing as fek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Travellers_%28disambiguation%29

[acc2020]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

It doesn't bother me that someone was born a gypsie. What does concern me is if they are in the area my alloy wheels may go missing or the my gararge roof slates may go overnight. Don't say its just sterotyping because its a common occurance.

Maybe its just my area , maybe the gypsies in Kensington or Henley upon Thames or wherever you live don't do that sort of thing.

[ManuelsMum]

@ Manuel'smum

Gypsies and travellers are not the same thing.

What you're doing by calling travellers and Gypsies the same thing is like me calling all western continentals 'german'

Ok thanks, understood

[kinboshi]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Travellers ARE what they DO. The clue is in the name.

Gypsies are what they do?

Yes, to the extent that it may affect the broad legitimacy of prejudice against them. Per my previous post....a large part of their identity comes from what they do...travel. They don't really find permanent roots in and among communities. If a Romani decides to settle in the house next door to acc2020, with family in tow, do you think that the prejudice would still be there 100% in the same way it would with a gay/black/jewish/muslim person next door to someone who hated them? Probably not. The fact that they don't settle/integrate (and maybe by extension don't feel the need to conform to social norms) is what breeds the suspicion and ill-will more than a blind out-group bias?

No, that's 'travellers'.  Read Tom's post above.  Gypsies are a race, you're born a Gypsy. 

So 'gypsies' and 'travellers' have nothing to do with each other then? Gypsies just settle into brick and morrar society just like your average non-gypsy? The fact that people are born Gypsy doesn't generally lead to a set of social behaviours that are different from the norm?

No, Gypsies and travellers have nothing to do with each other.

Gypsies are more often than not forced into bricks and mortar by circumstance rather than choice.

Yes, being born a Gypsy does lead to a set of behaviours that are different from the norm, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's anti-social behaviour.

That last bit is true of any social group you want to choose.  For example, there are many groups who say that their group places a greater emphasis on the 'family' than other groups - but it's often the case that many others think exactly the same.  People just recognise that element of their own group because they exist within it and see it close up.  They don't necessarily see the same thing in other groups.  I'm not sure Gypsies are necessarily behaving outside the 'norm' more than other groups, I think that's what most groups probably consider themselves to do.  (Not sure that makes sense, but I know what I mean).

[GreekStein]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

Cos, this post is as bad as his have been, DUCY ?

No I don't Ray but I can see why you'd think that as I haven't worded it great.

I'm not saying all people in council estates are x,y,z - I'm just saying they must be bad sorts/unintelligent if they share acc's views but ya might delete as its worded terrabadly.

[kinboshi]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

Some areas of the country have been affected more than others by gypsies. So therefore the opinion in my area is quite negative towards gypsies. This is based their anti social behaviour and the consequences to the area during their frequent stays.

I probaby passed thousands of gypsies in my car or on the street. Some I've noticed , some I've not  but my view is formed around the ones I've had social interaction with. How many do i need to interact with to form an opinion ? Like i said its in the hundreds over the years ,is that enough ?

I'm not keen on anti social behaviour like anyone else , but the ones who partake in these activities are in a minority within their own group , that i have noticed.

Your point about Islam and America is what i am saying about gypsies.

You say they're affected by Gypsies.  You know they're Gypsies?  Your next-door neighbour, are they Gypsies?  The bank manager, is he a Gypsy? 

My point about Islam and Americans is not the same as what you're saying about Gypsies at all, don't misrepresent me.  I don't have a 'position' on Muslims or Americans before I meet them - I treat them as individuals, not on preconceived stereotypes.  I do the same with Welsh, Greeks, Japanese, English, Scots - even the Dutch.

It doesn't bother me that someone was born a gypsie. What does concern me is if they are in the area my alloy wheels may go missing or the my gararge roof slates may go overnight. Don't say its just sterotyping because its a common occurance.

Maybe its just my area , maybe the gypsies in Kensington or Henley upon Thames or wherever you live don't do that sort of thing.

It's stereotyping.

[acc2020]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

Cos, this post is as bad as his have been, DUCY ?

No I don't Ray but I can see why you'd think that as I haven't worded it great.

I'm not saying all people in council estates are x,y,z - I'm just saying they must be bad sorts/unintelligent if they share acc's views but ya might delete as its worded terrabadly.

Don't try and weasel yourself out of this , just say what you think. I knew what you meant.

[RED-DOG]

ok tyty

Someone needs to sort wikipedia out cos it's confusing as fek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Travellers_%28disambiguation%29

It's quite difficult, what with all the different caravan dwelling groups. New Age Travellers for instance are just members of the settled community who fancy trying the Gypsy lifestyle, but if they commit a crime the press are happy to call them Gypsies.

I recently attended an APPG meeting in the house of Lords (Unashamed brag) and one of the items on the agenda was who can and cannot be defined as a Gypsy.

http://www.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/Images/Inter-Agency%20Guidance_tcm19-84813.pdf

[acc2020]

At what point does sterotyping become fact.

If i had supper with 1000 chinese families and conclude they like rice , can i use that to form an opinion or is that still sterotyping ?