Travellers

[RED-DOG]

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

[leethefish]

2 or 3 very good posts in last couple of pages

my experiences of gypsies are this...

red-dog helping me and encouraging me with my weight loss/challenge....as did the settled comunity....

a gypsy nicking my saw from the back of my van ...as have two people from the settled comunity....

a group of gypsies now living in a rented house near my brother great group of people....

...my point i judge every person i come to meet individually as should  all of us the world would be a much nicer place.

[MANTIS01]

Highmile makes a very good point on a very difficult topic here.

If every person from a particularly group that you come across is bad then human nature will make you distrust them all until you have good reason to formulate a different opinion.

It's the same if a woman or man is cheated on by a few partners. They will naturally develop a mistrust in all women/men and it will become difficult for the next one they meet to break that mistrust.

It's totally unfair to tar the next person with the same brush as the last but we as humans just can't help it.

If I had never met a Chinese person then bumped in to one tomorrow and he punched me in the face I'd be a little wary. If I met another the next day and he did the same I'd start to think I was better off not meeting any more Chinese people because they have a habit of punching me in the face.

If I then met 50 Chinese people who all bought me a pint I'd then realise that those first 2 were just bad apples amongst a group of generally reasonable people.

If somebody has a majority of bad experiences of Gypsies, Chinese, men, women, dogs, cats or any other group that you can think of then it is totally understandable for that person to develop a mistrust in the group as a whole.

Unfortunately some people aren't very good at putting their opinion across in a reasonable manner to most which is why we end up where we are now with this thread.

You learn how to play poker and in your first tournament your aces get cracked. Then in your next tournament they get cracked again. Thus your whole personal experience with aces in tournaments is bad and they don't win for you. I agree that next time you pick up aces you will be a little wary, but that's different from having a conviction that aces will always lose. You know about poker and you have learnt the game so even thou your personal experience is bad you should be able to use your overall wisdom to conclude that aces do in fact mostly win. Similarly from learning about life and people we should know that most people are innately good. We might have had bad experiences a couple of times but we should still have the wisdom to conclude that the bad is the minority. If we are unable to do that we would be branding whole races of people inherently bad and that would be as foolish as the conviction aces always get cracked in tournaments. What human nature does is make us pidgeon hole stuff so if you're expecting bad it will be easy to find.

[EvilPie]

Highmile makes a very good point on a very difficult topic here.

If every person from a particularly group that you come across is bad then human nature will make you distrust them all until you have good reason to formulate a different opinion.

It's the same if a woman or man is cheated on by a few partners. They will naturally develop a mistrust in all women/men and it will become difficult for the next one they meet to break that mistrust.

It's totally unfair to tar the next person with the same brush as the last but we as humans just can't help it.

If I had never met a Chinese person then bumped in to one tomorrow and he punched me in the face I'd be a little wary. If I met another the next day and he did the same I'd start to think I was better off not meeting any more Chinese people because they have a habit of punching me in the face.

If I then met 50 Chinese people who all bought me a pint I'd then realise that those first 2 were just bad apples amongst a group of generally reasonable people.

If somebody has a majority of bad experiences of Gypsies, Chinese, men, women, dogs, cats or any other group that you can think of then it is totally understandable for that person to develop a mistrust in the group as a whole.

Unfortunately some people aren't very good at putting their opinion across in a reasonable manner to most which is why we end up where we are now with this thread.

You learn how to play poker and in your first tournament your aces get cracked. Then in your next tournament they get cracked again. Thus your whole personal experience with aces in tournaments is bad and they don't win for you. I agree that next time you pick up aces you will be a little wary, but that's different from having a conviction that aces will always lose. You know about poker and you have learnt the game so even thou your personal experience is bad you should be able to use your overall wisdom to conclude that aces do in fact mostly win. Similarly from learning about life and people we should know that most people are innately good. We might have had bad experiences a couple of times but we should still have the wisdom to conclude that the bad is the minority. If we are unable to do that we would be branding whole races of people inherently bad and that would be as foolish as the conviction aces always get cracked in tournaments. What human nature does is make us pidgeon hole stuff so if you're expecting bad it will be easy to find.

Comparing real life experiences to something which can be mathematically proven is ridiculous to say the least.

[ManuelsMum]

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

Racism seems to have declined in the UK in the last 50 years, from the days of 'no dogs/no blacks/no irish', probably through a process of education and enlightenment: most people now know that racial prejudice leads to biased approaches where the bias is unjustified. You simply cannot make valid judgements about someone's character based on their race/colour. This is because there is no correlation between the social behaviours of that person as they will affect you (the person making the judgement) and the colour of their skin/group they were born into.
It may be the belief of some people however that a major defining characteristic of "Gypsies"/Travellers IS a social behaviour that will affect the judging party, namely nomadism, and with it, non-integration into the community in which they have just made themselves present. They may feel (rightly/wrongly?) that whereas on the one hand even though people normally resident in their communities may not be champions of altruism, these people know that their behaviour has long term consequences for them and it is better for all concerned if they try to respect/help each other. There is no such long term consequence for the Traveller because they simply will not be there. Where is the incentive not to *just do as you please*?
If anyone can prove their prejudice wrong, I'm sure you can.

[gatso]

2 or 3 very good posts in last couple of pages

my experiences of gypsies are this...

red-dog helping me and encouraging me with my weight loss/challenge....as did the settled comunity....

a gypsy nicking my saw from the back of my van ...as have two people from the settled comunity....

a group of gypsies now living in a rented house near my brother great group of people....

...my point i judge every person i come to meet individually as should  all of us the world would be a much nicer place.

you need to take better care of your saws

[MANTIS01]

Highmile makes a very good point on a very difficult topic here.

If every person from a particularly group that you come across is bad then human nature will make you distrust them all until you have good reason to formulate a different opinion.

It's the same if a woman or man is cheated on by a few partners. They will naturally develop a mistrust in all women/men and it will become difficult for the next one they meet to break that mistrust.

It's totally unfair to tar the next person with the same brush as the last but we as humans just can't help it.

If I had never met a Chinese person then bumped in to one tomorrow and he punched me in the face I'd be a little wary. If I met another the next day and he did the same I'd start to think I was better off not meeting any more Chinese people because they have a habit of punching me in the face.

If I then met 50 Chinese people who all bought me a pint I'd then realise that those first 2 were just bad apples amongst a group of generally reasonable people.

If somebody has a majority of bad experiences of Gypsies, Chinese, men, women, dogs, cats or any other group that you can think of then it is totally understandable for that person to develop a mistrust in the group as a whole.

Unfortunately some people aren't very good at putting their opinion across in a reasonable manner to most which is why we end up where we are now with this thread.

You learn how to play poker and in your first tournament your aces get cracked. Then in your next tournament they get cracked again. Thus your whole personal experience with aces in tournaments is bad and they don't win for you. I agree that next time you pick up aces you will be a little wary, but that's different from having a conviction that aces will always lose. You know about poker and you have learnt the game so even thou your personal experience is bad you should be able to use your overall wisdom to conclude that aces do in fact mostly win. Similarly from learning about life and people we should know that most people are innately good. We might have had bad experiences a couple of times but we should still have the wisdom to conclude that the bad is the minority. If we are unable to do that we would be branding whole races of people inherently bad and that would be as foolish as the conviction aces always get cracked in tournaments. What human nature does is make us pidgeon hole stuff so if you're expecting bad it will be easy to find.

Comparing real life experiences to something which can be mathematically proven is ridiculous to say the least.

Against a random hand the mathematical fact is aces are good 85% of the time and bad 15% of the time. I propose 85% of people are good and 15% are bad (althou that bad figure is quite high imo). So hating on the 85% because of the 15% is a similar mindset to believing your aces will lose. Thus you hate the majority % because of your experience with the minority %. I don't know how to prove my theory that most people are good mathematically in order to support this proposal but I don't think saying it's ridiculous disproves it.

[ManuelsMum]

Downside of trusting someone you should have distrusted - quite high.

Downside of distrusting someone you should have trusted - quite low.

=>Bias towards distrust is a better strategy.

Probably the basis for negative stereotyping, and the Funamental Attribution Error (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error) too.

[acc2020]

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

Very well put and i agree with most of that. What i disagree with is where you suggest that the percentage of wrong-uns within the gypsie community would be the same as any other group.Theoretically it should be true but in my opinion it is miles away from the truth.

As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking or recruit an anti gypsie following. Just because i dislike gypsies doesn't mean i will act upon that and create any harm towards that group. Quite simply i just try to avoid gypsies at all times. This is only protect myself and those close to me from any harm /incident that may occur.

I'm not suggesting there are no wrong-uns within the non gypsie community because we all know there is , but an observation i've noticed is that some of them weild weapons. I can think of about 6 occassions where i've seen a gypsie handle a gun , not used to shoot anyboby but simply just for showing off to other gypsies. I recall eating in a takeaway once and these gypsies pulled one out at the table they were eating and started polishing it with some vinegar as if he was polishing a medal.What sort of behaviuor is that in society.Also when i was a kid  a gypsie kid hung around with us and we were all fascinated with the pistol he kept in his pants which he used to shoot rabbits and hedgehogs , is that normal ? Fair enough 6 occasions does not represent the whole gypsie community but outside of this community i cant ever recall seeing a gun outside of a controlled enviorment. I can also say the same about some of them wielding knives.

I know the PC brigade and gypsie Fan Club are loving my posts and think I'm a nutter but I'm being honest and in my opinion there are many many silent Blonde members out there who would agree with me.

[RED-DOG]

highmile makes a valid and well reasoned point, peoples peceptions of Gypsies are that the vast majority of them are wrong-uns. (Although any reasonably independent thought would lead to the conclusion that the percentage is actually about the same as it is for any other group).

Once upon a time in America, most decent, law-abiding citizens were convinced that Red Indians (Native Americans) were savages and wanton killers. The same goes for the Aborigines, who were hunted like animals by well educated, civilised, cultured people.

It's a fact that even today, in these enlightened times, any negative feeling or adverse racial stereotyping toward Gypsies is openly encouraged and amplified by the media, especially the red tops. As a consequence, people who have never met, or at best have had very little contact with Gypsies have already made up their minds.

Open prejudice toward Gypsies in this and other countries is the last bastion of tolerated racism, and it's effects can be and often are too horrible to contemplate, especially when you see it first hand on a regular basis.

I'm grateful to all those who have taken the time to contribute to this thread, whatever their stance.

Very well put and i agree with most of that. What i disagree with is where you suggest that the percentage of wrong-uns within the gypsie community would be the same as any other group.Theoretically it should be true but in my opinion it is miles away from the truth.

As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking or recruit an anti gypsie following. Just because i dislike gypsies doesn't mean i will act upon that and create any harm towards that group. Quite simply i just try to avoid gypsies at all times. This is only protect myself and those close to me from any harm /incident that may occur.

I'm not suggesting there are no wrong-uns within the non gypsie community because we all know there is , but an observation i've noticed is that some of them weild weapons. I can think of about 6 occassions where i've seen a gypsie handle a gun , not used to shoot anyboby but simply just for showing off to other gypsies. I recall eating in a takeaway once and these gypsies pulled one out at the table they were eating and started polishing it with some vinegar as if he was polishing a medal.What sort of behaviuor is that in society.Also when i was a kid  a gypsie kid hung around with us and we were all fascinated with the pistol he kept in his pants which he used to shoot rabbits and hedgehogs , is that normal ? Fair enough 6 occasions does not represent the whole gypsie community but outside of this community i cant ever recall seeing a gun outside of a controlled enviorment. I can also say the same about some of them wielding knives.

I know the PC brigade and gypsie Fan Club are loving my posts and think I'm a nutter but I'm being honest and in my opinion there are many many silent Blonde members out there who would agree with me.

"As you can gather i have made up my mind and will not be swayed otherwise , however it is not my intention to influence others towards my way of thinking"


If that's the case I can't for the life of me imagine why you read this thread or contribute to it.

[acc2020]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

[GreekStein]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

[kinboshi]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

[mondatoo]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

Just when I thought your posts couldnt get worse...

Do you think the council estate folk 3 miles from where you live are intelligent upstanding people?

Obv you aren't referring to all people that live on a council estate ??

[RED-DOG]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

No, you're getting me wrong. I'm not questioning your right to post your opinions, I'm I'm questioning your reasoning for bothering with this thread if you don't want to influence anyone and refuse to be influenced yourself.

I really don't understand your fan club comments, are people not allowed to agree with some of the things I say, or disagree with you?

As for your "Take it out to the playground comments", If you were to give me a good hiding what would that prove?

Is that how you win your arguments?