Travellers

[boldie]

I find this topic interesting including some of the views posted on here. Just because i am in the minority on here doesn't mean i can't air an opinion. A lot of posts on this forum include sarcasm and risque innuendo's which seems perfectly acceptable but when on this topic i say something which some members disagree with you all come out and form a gypsie Fan Club.

If we made this physical out in the playground of Blonde Head Quarters I'm sure your supporters will by far exceed mine. If we took it to the council estate 3 miles from where i live you and your gypsie Fan Club wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm sure that would be the same for a lot of prejudiced views as well related to ethnic minorities, Muslims, gays, etc.  Not sure why a group of random people from a council estate will have different views to a group of people from a posh estate in the suburbs though.

A point that Tom brought up earlier that you didn't respond to (you might have missed it amongst all the other posts) asked how you 'know' who is a Gypsy and who isn't?  You have attributed a lot of anti-social behaviour to Gypsies, when I'm guessing you mean 'travellers' (small t, rather than travellers with a big T).  Tom also mentioned that you probably come into contact with a lot of Gypsies and you don't even know they are, because they are not acting in a way you expect Gypsies to behave. 

I'm not keen on travellers who carry out anti-social behaviour.  I'm not keen on black or Asian gangs who carry out crimes.  However, I not keen on people who live in houses who carry out anti-social behaviour, or white gangs who engage in criminal activities.  The key part there is I don't like what they DO, what they ARE (in terms of race or skin colour, etc.) is irrelevant.  I think Islam is a horrible religion that promotes division and oppression (to non-Muslims, women, etc.), but that doesn't mean I hate Muslims.  I dislike a lot of what America stands for, but have nothing against American people. 

you sir are typical of the pc nimbys who i detest. i have more respect for someone who calls me a chinky to my face than the likes of you. you are on here whiter than white trying to defend Gypsies because Tom is a mate of yours pure and simple. yet you leave a sick taste in my mouth because underneath you are racist. why do you find the need to give an example  of why you think Islam is a horrible religion (which is bigoted and ill informed) yet you do not give  an example of what you dislike about America. i get a ban for calling you a neo n*** yet nothing is done about your mate using similar words and his comment allowed to be left on the thread.

as a member of a minority group your comments leave a bitter taste in my mouth and i know its the likes of you that do more harm to society than the shaven haired kid marching through the streets of blackburn chanting his slogans. i see you for what you are and you are dangerous to have as an administrator/ moderator because you can abuse this power. i feel so strongly about it that i got out of bed to fire up my laptop so i could highlight your quote because i cant do it on my phone. i had you down as a decent enough chap to stake you in something last month and a lot of guys who i respect have told me you are ok but i now have my doubts

disclaimer: this could be the last post i make on this site if it is removed.

..Herbieherbieherbie. Bless ya, I think you're funny as hell and you come across as a nice guy but you really need to learn how to read between the lines in some posts mate. Or even just re-reading the lines would do.

[smashedagain]

i aint very good at this internet thing. i dont have time to read what other people write and only pick  out the odd word. the real reason i spend so much time on here is re reading my own posts because they are some of the funniest and best things about the site

[cambridgealex]

i aint very good at this internet thing. i dont have time to read what other people write and only pick  out the odd word. the real reason i spend so much time on here is re reading my own posts because they are some of the funniest and best things about the site

Herbie you've been logged in for 34days and 8 hours, considering you've only been posting since like march that's a hell of a lot.

[smashedagain]

Tbh Alex this site is my window to the outside world and most of the adult conversation is on here. The kids take up most of my time and this is about the only thing I do on the Internet . Imagine how much rake I could have made or how big the Smashedagain thread would be if I started all my arguments on that thread instead of every other one.

Am feeling a lot of love from a lot of people on here ATM and my friend requests on sadbook went through the roof. One status on there regarding not being able to get back on here had like 50 comments. Tbh most of em were from tighty offering to fight my friends lol

[nirvana]

Stereotyping is fundamental to our personal survival obv so stereotyping per se is an important acquired skill rather than something to be scorned.

Discrimination abounds across all cultures, races, creeds etc.

For the Hindi women where I work (think I might have used this example before) they would be mortified (in order of mortification) if their children married:

a) Someone black
b) A muslim
c) A caucasian
d) Someone from the wrong caste

Muslims and Jews aren't too keen on including in people from other faiths into their families

Gypsies are pretty keen on ensuring their kids marry Gypsies

Radical atheists (as opposed to the indifferent or uninterested) seem to find something to hate or mock in every person with a declared faith.

In general, I think the most tolerant people are me, although I'm not keen if a man tries to touch my bottom.

[Claw75]

I would like to say that Mantis may be my second favourite person in the world, but I know he's a lone ranger and wouldn't like that kind of schizzle, so I won't.

[moonandback]

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

[boldie]

Not really the right use of statistics I'm afraid, moon.

I am sure someone will go into a large spiel soon and explain exactly how you can't say " a larger % of travellers are in jail and therefore you should be more wary if they move into your neighbourhood".

"What are they in jail for?" is one question I'd ask.
"Are they more likely to be put in jail?" is another (not saying they are BTW)
"Is the type of crime non-travellers commit different and is that why % wise the travellers have a larger% in jail?" is a third.

Many, many questions like that that I would ask.

One set of statistics can be misinterpreted in many ways and be used to represent a simplified view. I'm afraid that that is kind off what your reasoning is as well. Many shades of grey but it's easier to make something look black and white, it's what the tabloids do when they use reports like this as well.

[moonandback]

the report did go on to break down why they were in jail and Irish travellers were less likely to be in for drug or sexual offences than the general prison population but more likely to be in for burglary or theft. link below page 27 i think

http://www.iprt.ie/files/Voices_Unheard_June_20112.pdf

q2 as a Traveller does not have a brick and mortar address they are more likely to kept in on remand i believe
q3 i dont think so, I would imagine sex and drugs offences are just as likely to get you put in jail as burglary and theft.

I am well aware that statistics can be misleading but fifteen times more likely is an awful lot dont you think, can it all be down to discrimination or the skewing of statistics or is there something inherently broken with the way in which the Irish Travellers lifestyle and culture that make them more likely to commit a crime ? a bit of both i would think.
 and remember i got the numbers and info from a charity that is trying to help the Irish traveller community not some right wing group.

[MANTIS01]

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

I would imagine the stats are some way off and there are additional factors like the inability to implement community orders that affect the results. But whatever, for arguments sake let's say those stats are accurate and we are using them to decide what's good and bad like you have. The way I would choose to interpret those figures is they tell me only 1-2% of Gypsies are in prison and bad. Thus 98-99% of Gypsies are not in prison and good. So when you run into a random Gypsy the probability is well in your favour they will be good.

Referring back to my ridic aces example. If somebody goes all-in during a comp and we look down to find aces there is no hesitation. We are totally committed and confident that this is good. We would never fold because a 85% chance of a good outcome and only a 15% chance of a bad outcome is overwhelming odds. We are certain to expect good. Yet when we switch to people a 98%-2% stat is supposed to prove a bad expectation is a reasonable attitude to carry thru life. That's like worrying about the last time aces lost and folding them. Why do we suddenly lose all our confidence when it comes to people? It all depends what attitude you want in life. These opinions are like a milestone to carry around with you really and I find it pointless because almost every random we meet will be decent. The stats prove that. So writing an article about a 1 or 2% stat and focussing on it is like writing an article suggesting you should fold aces. It's just a waste of time to live like that.

[MANTIS01]

I would like to say that Mantis may be my second favourite person in the world, but I know he's a lone ranger and wouldn't like that kind of schizzle, so I won't.

sweet ty tonto

[acc2020]

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

One of the better posts on here. Interesting use of statistics. Also interesting is that the very next post is rubbishing your use of statistics , maybe because its doesn't fit very well with the pro gypsie camp.

You ask is it OK to be more wary if gypsies move into the neighbourhood and answer yes. This is my belief too.

A few have refered to me as a racist ,bigot and unintelligent. Maybe i am or maybe i'm not  doesn't really bother me what names i get called but let me ask one question , if when a group sets up camp near my home and i take precautions like purchasing extra locks and parking my car in the garage instead of on the drive.Is that an act of a racist , bigot and somebody unintelligent ? Would you deem me the villain ?

A lot of posters on this thread are in the pro gypsie camp ( despite having no contact with them but are giving their 37p worth ), a few are neutral and it seems i'm alone on my stance. This is not reflective of the view of the wider public whether the majority on here are right or wrong.Those of you who want to google the "why people dislike gypsies " debate you will find many many more posters like myself and realise it is you guys in the minority not me.

[acc2020]

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp  
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

I would imagine the stats are some way off and there are additional factors like the inability to implement community orders that affect the results. But whatever, for arguments sake let's say those stats are accurate and we are using them to decide what's good and bad like you have. The way I would choose to interpret those figures is they tell me only 1-2% of Gypsies are in prison and bad. Thus 98-99% of Gypsies are not in prison and good. So when you run into a random Gypsy the probability is well in your favour they will be good.

Referring back to my ridic aces example. If somebody goes all-in during a comp and we look down to find aces there is no hesitation. We are totally committed and confident that this is good. We would never fold because a 85% chance of a good outcome and only a 15% chance of a bad outcome is overwhelming odds. We are certain to expect good. Yet when we switch to people a 98%-2% stat is supposed to prove a bad expectation is a reasonable attitude to carry thru life. That's like worrying about the last time aces lost and folding them. Why do we suddenly lose all our confidence when it comes to people? It all depends what attitude you want in life. These opinions are like a milestone to carry around with you really and I find it pointless because almost every random we meet will be decent. The stats prove that. So writing an article about a 1 or 2% stat and focussing on it is like writing an article suggesting you should fold aces. It's just a waste of time to live like that.

If you exclue my posts and Greeksteins faux pas about the council estate being dumb  you must agree this is this is the most rediculous post yet.

98% of a population is good because they are not in prison is absoltely stupid , never mind the fact he was refering to gypsies too. That figure refects the ones they've caught but what about the ones they haven't ?

Anybody not in prison must be good people.

[Geo the Sarge]

I have been reading this thread with interest as i have lived in a town in Ireland that has a lot of Travellers associated with it for the last 10 years and am always hearing locals giving out about the "knackers"  but i myself have never been the victim of any crime while living here nor have i ever felt threatened or uncomfortable.
So i thought i would do some research and stumbled across a document published by the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain link below
 http://www.irishchaplaincy.org.uk/travellers.asp 
now this is a fairly dry report from a charity that are clearly trying to do some good and to help the Travellers that find themselves in prison with their literacy and overcome the settled communities prejudice and i wish them every success.

however, the report states that estimates are that 20-30,000 Irish Travellers live in England and Wales and a survey done in Sept 2010 found that 450 were in prison although they felt this was vastly understated and the number was closer to 800. so i did some maths (it's in my nature) there are about 50 million people in England and Wales and about 80,000 of them are in prison about 1 in 625, if we take the mid points of the reports estimates and say 600 out of the 25,000 Travellers are in jail we get a figure of 1 in 42 ish meaning an Irish Traveller taken at random is FIFTEEN times more likely to be in jail (therefore a criminal?) than someone taken from the general population.
does this mean all Travellers are crooks? obviously not
does this mean it's OK to "hate all Travellers"? of course not
is it OK to be more wary if a group of Travellers move into your neighbourhood? probably yes

it's been stated many times that every ethnicity or social group has good and bad people within it which of course is right but not every group has good and bad in the same proportion some have a higher percentage of bad and its not always just perception.

One of the better posts on here. Interesting use of statistics. Also interesting is that the very next post is rubbishing your use of statistics , maybe because its doesn't fit very well with the pro gypsie camp.

You ask is it OK to be more wary if gypsies move into the neighbourhood and answer yes. This is my belief too.

A few have refered to me as a racist ,bigot and unintelligent. Maybe i am or maybe i'm not  doesn't really bother me what names i get called but let me ask one question , if when a group sets up camp near my home and i take precautions like purchasing extra locks and parking my car in the garage instead of on the drive.Is that an act of a racist , bigot and somebody unintelligent ? Would you deem me the villain ?

A lot of posters on this thread are in the pro gypsie camp ( despite having no contact with them but are giving their 37p worth ), a few are neutral and it seems i'm alone on my stance. This is not reflective of the view of the wider public whether the majority on here are right or wrong.Those of you who want to google the "why people dislike gypsies " debate you will find many many more posters like myself and realise it is you guys in the minority not me.

More than happy to be in the minority in this case

Geo

[ManuelsMum]

Acc, Boldie's probably right, there are just so many other factors that you need to consider, that you can't rely on %incarceration on its own as an indication of %criminality.
Just been checking out the relative stats for black incarceration, it's pretty staggering. However I do think they get arrested more often.
In the USA black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated than white men. Why is this?