World flopped, are we happy with it now?

[SuuPRlim]

make it 250 so Ajit calls and overlays the pot for us, call when tom jams, or if they both flat jam any non pairing turncard.

I think c/r is > c/c personally, not a huge fan of donking in thid SPECIFIC spot cos you can be in a complete coffin 3way OTT if we brick

I would make it like 350 personally. we surely cannot ever get away from this as played? I would have prefered check call in this specific spot but as played we surely have to get this in because as you say we are repping super strong here. People should be able to fold 1 pair hands we are marginal against.

I think what we're repping is kind of irrelevant, I just want Ajit to overcall and give us overlay, I think he's more likely yo call 250 than 350 but if we have small fold equity vs Tom's range I think its kind of a mute point, I always feel weak c/c in these spots because our equity is so strong on the flop but venerable to a lot of turncards, id rather get it in "good" and realize my flop equity than be c/f the turn ever

[WotRTheChances]

Pretty sure I am flatting here to keep Ajit in the pot 100% of the time.

The number of hands with ridic reverse implied odds vs our hand here which he is not folding after we flat makes it not that close imo.
He calls (or sometimes even shoves here) with   ,   ,   , , , flats with 8x9x, Jx9x, JxKx, some Qx hands possibly.
Think he stacks off a decent % if he makes straights, all the time if he has lower FDs... but he does like to spaz out somtimes with hands with poor equity vs us here if we flat.

I agree this isn't a spot I think Tom is raising with anything other than v.strong made/nutted drawing/combo draw hands, which will not be folding to 3-bets here, so if we 3-bet here we are pretty much getting it in vs his range. Probs a fairly neutral EV spot to get it in there, but imo considerably +EV to keep Ajit in.... it seems like Ajit folds all his 1-pair hands, some if not all his lower FDs and generally all of the range we want him to be keeping hold of even if we 3b small.

[SuuPRlim]

doesnt seen like the guy who 4bet jams Ahigh on a flop will bbe folding 5d6d to a small flop 3bet here

[WotRTheChances]

doesnt seen like the guy who 4bet jams Ahigh on a flop will bbe folding 5d6d to a small flop 3bet here

Possibly. Ajit's play fluctuates massively day to day. Some days you know he will be peeling a 3b on this flop ridic wide, other days he will fold  7dXd in this spot. Pretty important factor in this decision imo... he is improving (slightly... with stormy patches)

[SuuPRlim]

yh your right 100% Tom r.e mood I think thats a crucial factor in a vacuum flop decision

[cambridgealex]

Thanks for responses chaps.

To summarise, don't donk in this spot ever?

As played, raise really small to keep Ajit in, and just get it in?

I did that, I made it 280 I think and before I knew it Ajit had shoved in 2grands worth of pink chips. Tom folded.

And our worst nightmares came to life when Ajit revealed the disastrous .

Ran it twice, he hit a king both runs

[SuuPRlim]

I think you played this hand well tbh, I think tho that I agree donking isnt great here, not with this specific hand vs these specific oppo's

amd seriously FYL with the stacks and action i think this is a pretty genuine cooler

[cambridgealex]

I think you played this hand well tbh, I think tho that I agree donking isnt great here, not with this specific hand vs these specific oppo's

amd seriously FYL with the stacks and action i think this is a pretty genuine cooler

Ikr! I used to run like dave

[giveyourcash]

For everyone's records I had     and was raising to sigh get it run it twice in vs Alex but obviously was hoping for an alex fold and an ajit call.

 990  games     0.005 secs   198,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    52.626%     52.63%    00.00%               521            0.00   { Kd9d }
Hand 1:    47.374%     47.37%    00.00%               469            0.00   { AsQs }


Knowing the hands I obv should have called the shove and in fact I snap folded without thinking about the possibility of two combos (steady mitch I mean the draws not the meals)


 903  games     0.005 secs   180,600  games/sec

Board:
Dead:  

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    10.631%     10.63%    00.00%                96            0.00   { Kd9d }
Hand 1:    48.837%     48.39%    00.44%               437            4.00   { AsQs }
Hand 2:    40.532%     40.09%    00.44%               362            4.00   { AdJd }

Pretty sick to be flipping getting 2-1. Wish I'd thought about it longer.

Edit : except I would've lost so obv I made the correct fold

[skolsuper]

I think you played this hand well tbh, I think tho that I agree donking isnt great here, not with this specific hand vs these specific oppo's

amd seriously FYL with the stacks and action i think this is a pretty genuine cooler

Personally I think bet/call is the obvious best line on the flop considering we all agree we have close to zero fold equity and the logic for 3betting the flop is based on such a precarious upside-down pyramid of assumptions it's just massive FPS spew tbh, but maybe that's just me.

[DMorgan]

the logic for 3betting the flop is based on such a precarious upside-down pyramid of assumptions

<3

[mondatoo]

the logic for 3betting the flop is based on such a precarious upside-down pyramid of assumptions

<3

Haha was just going to post same, keep posting Keys plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[SuuPRlim]

I think you played this hand well tbh, I think tho that I agree donking isnt great here, not with this specific hand vs these specific oppo's

amd seriously FYL with the stacks and action i think this is a pretty genuine cooler

Personally I think bet/call is the obvious best line on the flop considering we all agree we have close to zero fold equity and the logic for 3betting the flop is based on such a precarious upside-down pyramid of assumptions it's just massive FPS spew tbh, but maybe that's just me.

too good.

We only realize we have zero fold equity once we've been raised though.