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Author Topic: £5-10 spot  (Read 2896 times)
muckthenuts
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« on: December 13, 2011, 09:38:03 PM »

A big whale was in the casino which prompted some of the regs to start a £5-10 hold em to accomodate. Literally never seen it happen before. 7 handed and with a decent looking seat available i decided to jump in as well.

Villian in this hand is the best player on the table. Top class and very very aggressive, he reads hands well and won't hesistate to empty the clip. About an hour into the game he's been opening a lot but not really limping. Whale has limped a couple times. I'm friends with the villian and i think he respects my game enough but might pin me as scared money as he knows this is 5x above my normal stakes, I have been pretty solid thus far and haven't shown anything down yet.

8 handed.
My stack £1.8k
Whale £3k
Villian covers


Whale limps in EP. Villian limps. I make it £60 otb with  . Folds round and both call.

Flop 

Whale checks. Villian donks for £140. Action on me. 

What line would you take here? For calling are there any other turns bar a T or 5/6 mayyybe that we like if he continues (which i think is v likely), and what runouts are we calling down on/folding on? Anyone have an argument for finding a fold here on the flop also? 

Cheers
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George2Loose
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 09:41:45 PM »

When you say Whale is he calling everything? Think his tendencies would effect what I do here
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pleno1
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 09:44:50 PM »

how big a whale is he? is putting 15bis on the table too much iyo?
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
muckthenuts
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 09:51:31 PM »

When you say Whale is he calling everything? Think his tendencies would effect what I do here

Well he's kinda just an average player in a high buyin game who has a lot of moneys. Can make nonsensical plays and does like the call button quite a lot but he isn't like retarded.
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DMorgan
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 10:40:16 PM »

Whale is probably a bit harsh from your description. He just seems like a regular value player in a live cash game. For a bunch of 1/2 regs to decide to open a 5/10 table and play 5x their normal stake just for one guy he's gunna have to be pretty bad for this not to be a bad decision from a risk of ruin standpoint, unless you are hugely over-rolled for the 1/2 game.

If there is a 1/2 game running and all the regs have decided to try and take a shot at the guy thats probably not actually that much worse than they are then playing a softer-than-usual 1/2 game vs everyone that doesn't have the roll to play 5/10 sounds pretty inviting.

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway, to the hand in question definitely don't fold. I think he has 9x here a huge percentage of the time, probably something like a 97s type hand that just wanted to see a flop with the fish in the pot, now he has a hand that he can get value from the fish with so he's just going to bet because the other player in the pot (our hero) is going to play pretty face up - you're going to raise your hands that have good equity vs his hand (combo draws, overpairs, the case 99) and fold pretty much everything else. I doubt he expects you to have a bluffing range here and he's probably right. That doesn't mean that I think thats necessarily a bad thing for you not to have a bluffing range in this spot btw.

If he knows you then I think he's going to be aware that you have a decent number of overpairs in your range so he'd prefer to to c/c his QJdd type hands rather than bet/call or bet/3bet since his pair outs might not be clean and I think theres almost no chance that he tries to bluff you off an overpair here unless he's a proper sicko.

I think the best play kinda depends on the tendencies of the fish. We're looking for him to peel with a really wide range so all of his pair+gutshot stuff, gutter+overs, 9x, maybe some good 6x too. If you think that he'll continue with those hands to a raise here then go ahead and raise - if you don't then I think that just calling the £140 would be better to try and keep the fish in the pot when your hand crushes their ranges pretty hard and everyone is likely to play pretty straight forward imo.
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Pugwashed
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2011, 12:18:57 AM »

Raising flop seems pretty bad. When he leads here I'd expect to see 9x a lot, flush draws, maybe 77/88, sets, maybe some other pair + gutshots. Always flat the flop, call all turns that don't complete any draws. Probably fold if any draws do get there as even 9x/77/88 that gets turned into a bluff when a diamond hits is always (or imo should be always) betting river too if they bet turn. If he checks on a diamond turn I probably check behind but if he checks a blank turn then I'm always betting to get 1 street (maybe 2 on some rivers) of value out of hands that he's bluff catching with vs our floats / missed draws.
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muckthenuts
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2011, 12:22:33 AM »

Whale is probably a bit harsh from your description. He just seems like a regular value player in a live cash game. For a bunch of 1/2 regs to decide to open a 5/10 table and play 5x their normal stake just for one guy he's gunna have to be pretty bad for this not to be a bad decision from a risk of ruin standpoint, unless you are hugely over-rolled for the 1/2 game.

fyi it was the £2-5 omaha regs that got the game going
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DMorgan
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2011, 03:55:49 AM »

Whale is probably a bit harsh from your description. He just seems like a regular value player in a live cash game. For a bunch of 1/2 regs to decide to open a 5/10 table and play 5x their normal stake just for one guy he's gunna have to be pretty bad for this not to be a bad decision from a risk of ruin standpoint, unless you are hugely over-rolled for the 1/2 game.

fyi it was the £2-5 omaha regs that got the game going

Then it sounds like a good spot. I hope your track record at £5/10 shots is better than mine
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cambridgealex
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 04:15:25 AM »

Very interesting/difficult spot imo. These spots happen quite a bit in live games where there's a fish and two regs to the flop and if the fish is a certain kind of fish who never folds a pair, it makes the dynamic between the two regs very interesting because each know the other one HAS to having something.

I'd be tempted to fold tbh. Villain has a strong hand here ALWAYS. This flop hits his range pretty hard and yours not at all. Your range is capped at one pair hands pretty much.

Villain knows you'll check back this flop a lot so wants to take the betting initiative for obvious reasons.

What's yr opinion on whether villain would iso 55/66? assume he's isoing 99 always. Other than that I feel he'd donk with 56, 96, 78, combo draws. maybe 98 and 97 which is all we beat, but even those have decent equity vs us.

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    35.034%     35.03%    00.00%             56187            0.00   { TT }
Hand 1:    64.966%     64.97%    00.00%            104193            0.00   { 66-55, Ad8d, Ad7d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, Kd9d, Qd9d, Jd9d, Td9d, 96s+, 87s, 65s }

35% vs his range, coupled with the facts that we're not loving any turn card he bets on bar a Ten. We'll be guessing vs an uncapped, very strong range, when our hand is totally faceup.

I'd fold and not tell anyone, except later that night when I'd post it on blonde.
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GreekStein
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 05:59:24 AM »

I'd feel like a pussy for folding but if we call barrell 1 we don't like any turn bar a 10 he fires barrell 2 which is quite likely once he leads flop I'd say.

So as alex says, fold and don't tell anyone.
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pleno1
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 10:10:29 AM »

what if we have aces?
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Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
StuartHopkin
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 10:24:34 AM »

I would have to hand my cock and balls in at the cash desk if I fold the flop here!
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smashedagain
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 11:51:03 AM »

I would have to hand my cock and balls in at the cash desk if I fold the flop here!
Smiley (possibly your credit card to but i like your style)
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 01:34:46 PM »

The reg's range is completely capped pre-flop, capped to the extent that he 100% doesnt have 99, or A8s+ imo, he basically has a small pair or bad suited connectors almost always.

He's gonna know that you have a strong range to squeeze but will prolly give you credit for ISO'ing a bit wider than premium, AJs KQs etc but he is well aware this flop hits his range WAY harder than yours, so he can lead any hand with equity vs the super wide whale range, and fold out a lot of your stronger, over-card dominated range.

I'd call here for sure and fold turn on diamonds, 5,7,8,9,A and hero down on other cards. Jacks and Queens are actually the best cards for you.

If he's going to try get you off JJ+ he's only going to do it on middle cards anyway but you have to let him bluff you in that spot because his range is too strong
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ih8winning
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2011, 08:20:17 PM »

I am not folding the flop here ever but im a degen and love these spots.
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