$2k scoop spot

[DMorgan]

Just had the same message come up - strange that it didn't appear the first time. I've deleted the post.

Same story, trustworthy site this time:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/controversy-over-stalling-in-wcoop-8-game-13187

[pleno1]

edit: meh should delete that, probably too far posting that link sry

[smashedagain]

Can't understand how you ain't won a scoop at Marc's house Trigg. Seems pretty easy

[rfgqqabc]

How'd I miss this? Student quote is lol, I'm possibly the only one!

Maintaining we're beat for now

[aaron1867]

LARV this thread.

[Pugwashed]

Aaron Brunskill ‏@aaron1867
Just remind me not to play poker with students, they have no clue.

I think you meant 'talk' rather than 'play'  , but as a student I like to think his attitude doesn't mirror the majority of us

As far as my thoughts on PHA go; I like the fact that this forum isn't so huge that PHA isn't completely subdivided into game type and then by stakes (as it is with 2p2) meaning that you can end up with a lot of good players with different experiences of poker being encouraged to think outside of their 'comfort zone' (preferred/normal game type). As far as people posting on hands where they have little experience of the games or stakes I think that its a good thing (provided its approached with an open mind). What I mean is that people being able to post their thoughts on a hand that they may not be "qualified" to comment on and have someone critique their thought process (PHAA?) can be as good a way for them (or others reading) to learn as any and creates some of the most interesting discussions imo. Obviously in this case Aaron has not approached the thread with an open mind, blindly dismissing advice from some far more skilled and experienced players but really the only person this hurts is himself

[aaron1867]

The fact that I study has got nothing to do with it and I definitely don't class myself as a student for many different reasons.

I have approached this thread and seen the action in front and can't understand why there is no re-raise. At any level of stake, I personally think you should be re-rasing here and all these people with regards to percentages is stupid, you can't play the percentages all the times, I'm sorry, but when you play poker live or online, percentages don't come into your head.

There are some people on here that can see my point of view to re-rasing, but if you don't agree that is fine. Flatting the bet in my view is not getting you any information and at any point does Trigg know where he is? Is it ok saying to flat? What if the flop is totally different? You ae indeed giving the opponent free cards.

Again, talking about stake... I haven't played at this level before, then you are wrong again. But then again, I have a social life and not sat behind a PC 24 hours a day.

I am re-raising this pre-flop every day of the week.

[pleno1]

re-re raising, commonly known as a 4bet, rather than an initial raise which would be a 3bet or re-raise.

[rbc_mike]

This thread is absolute gold, I've genuinely bookmarked it.

Aaron, are you saying that in game, you never calculate pot odds?  If someone shoves and you've got a flush draw, do you call based on whether you 'feel' the card is coming? Poker is a game of psychology and mathematics; to ignore such a fundamental part of the game, particularly in tournaments where other mathematical concepts are relevant, is, quite frankly, moronic.

We don't reraise AJo in this spot because it makes us massively exploitable.  If you are 4betting too wide a range, the villain is gonna 5bet-jam all day long with worse, and there is nothing you can do about it.  How is that finding out 'information'?  The 'information' you obtain from turning a hand that does well against a wide 3bet range in position into a 4bet that does terribly against his 5bet jam value range, is not the 'information' that you are wishing to obtain.  By adjusting, the villain exploits us, and in the long run, profits from this.

I'm a student too, and I will happily admit that I don't play at this level, because I am not rolled for it, and frankly, I'm not good enough.  Remeber, knowledge speaks, wisdom listens.  It is fine to have an opinion, but when the overwhelming majority of evidence is suggesting that modifying your viewpoint is the best way to go, perhaps this says something.  Poker is about adjustments.  Anyone that said they had no leaks in their game would be lying; it is those who plug these leaks quickest that profit in the long run.

[rfgqqabc]

Pleno was tweeting from Aarons perspective?

Saying percentages don't matter is a crime against poker

[pleno1]

I was copying the tweet yeh lol.

[Keylek]

I've been thinking alot about this hand the last few days and have some thoughts to add to the dicussion

*disclaimer* as of writing this post I have not read the replies to OP past a page or two but will read through them before I post in the thread again. Also I do not know if results hafve been posted but I think they are needed by now??

I like preflop, stack size wise we have a relative monster with position and a great price. I don't think anyone can argue against a 4bet too much but I don't really think it is correct to 4-bet call and if stack sizes were slightly shallower I could also see a 4 bet jam being a viable option.

As played, even vs a really solid reg such as Kirbynator I think you have to call. There is no hand range or hands that he can really have to have us beat.. I would imagine a player of kirbynators calibre to keep betting the turn if he turns a flush draw more often than not as we are unlikely to raise too many of our holdings, normally his hand here is just a hand that is check calling the turn to jam the river as he believes we can't call a shove, so just a retarded bluff - nothing. I mean if he is sick enough to take this line with a hand like AA 33 or w/e because it looks so bluffy then fair play to him give him the money I guess. I mean the only viable hand he can really have with this action is 89s feeling we're strong on the turn so c/c's it but I mean this is unlikely.. I say call riv and would be interested to see how anyone can disagree, if no-one does I would love to see results.

Anyway, that is my opinion of the hand as played, but I would like to propose an alternative way to play the hand... This particular flop AJ3 rainbow is so ridiculously dry and i think just raising the flop small is such a sweet way to play vs regs, repping exactly 33 or AJ as we're unlikely to have AA or certainly JJ with preflop, yet it makes so little sense to raise with the m that all the hands that pay you anyway, AQ AK etc will obviously still stack off one wayt or another once you raise the flop. When you flat call on the flop your hand looks pretty much like an ace or a good jack or something slowplayed, yet when you raise a dry flop like this it looks so weak and bluffy your range will likely be opened up in the eyes of your opponent that you may well induce 3 bet spew on the flop or c/r spew on the turn, also hard for him to just fold an ace in this position cos wtf u dont expect o get raised on this flop after 3bettingpre however if we flat we rely on him having a good hand or deciding to barrell off vs some obvious showdown... thoughts???

[rfgqqabc]

I was copying the tweet yeh lol.

Wow, he actually said that? Comedy gold.

I showed Keylek this post, hes a good friend of mine. Hope we get results soon, pretty sure they haven't been given, although Doobs acted like we def see a showdown a page or two back

[action man]

villian dependent Keylek. This guy wasnt spew at all, he was solid and had been for the 3 hours previous. I thought it much more likely for him to barrell off flop and turn at least  than go crazy if we raise the flop. I imagine him to expect me to be floating this flop a large % of the time, down the streets i would be looking to get called by Ax Jx type hands. If we raise the flop it puts him in a bit of a coffin with his Ax and Jx hands and he might hero fold these as my image was very solid at the time also.

[Nit Tendencies]

Oh man Aaron, you're a lost cause.