Hand v Phil Ivey in 10k PLHE

[outragous76]

we have an absolutely nutted hand bvb (and we are unknown) vs an exceptionally talented player

In only considering river action I am never bet folding an absolutely nutted hand against a guy  who is capable of seeing a bet fold for what it is and doesnt care about 10k

check/ call is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than bet fold  in this spot vs ivey

ignore all that - im being a spazz - i suddenly had us OOP

ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,

meh, bet fold.................. makes me wanna puke

[TL900]

so your gona check behind the nut flush otr? or your gona bet/call the nut flush on the river in a spot where ivey is bluffing close to 0%?

either is very bad imo.

[Tal]

Best that I start this off by saying I'm a recreational player, so this isn't likely to carry - even justify - as much weight as the more educated views on here. I just wonder, especially as the hand was put on here for opinions, there isn't a case for the defence.

Ivey is repping 96 or poss a straight flush. We can safely assume that he has our hero on the ace of hearts, so now he has to get the most value. How often does the nut flush call a check-raise, in the face of a repped boat or better? Are we to assume that the hero's image is such that he would be likely to fold in that situation, too?

The Ace calls a value bet of 12k close to 100% of the time, whereas the blocker-bet-for-value the Ace makes is likely to be less than that. My argument would be, therefore, that the check-raise has more bluffs in it than is being suggested, because there's a good reason to lead - even lead closer to pot - and get value.

Turning this whole thing on its head, if Ivey thinks that your friend thinks at my level (and will, therefore, hero call with the Ace), you should tell your friend to give Ivey a slap for this egregious slur on his character.

Happy to be told where I'm massively wrong, of course!

[MTT DESTROYER]

Snap call

[pleno1]

3b pre,

raise flop

check turn wth intention of raising some rivers

will edit with reasons after sesh

[SuuPRlim]

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

[Patonius2000]

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

So you think we should 3bf because he won't 4b us light and will just peel loads? I'm not sure that is an accurate assumption. I'd flat pre and play a single raised pot ip vs a range we dominate, but I could be convinced that 3b is better. Raise/call flop I think is best vs a thinking opponent with these stack sizes, he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us. Check back turn and bet/raise some rivers (dumb exploitive play but I think it works pretty well in this particular spot).

[TL900]

im fine with heros line pre and flop tbh.

EDIT: whole line in this hand i like and i think i play it exactly the same

[tonys nephew]

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

So you think we should 3bf because he won't 4b us light and will just peel loads? I'm not sure that is an accurate assumption. I'd flat pre and play a single raised pot ip vs a range we dominate, but I could be convinced that 3b is better. Raise/call flop I think is best vs a thinking opponent with these stack sizes, he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us. Check back turn and bet/raise some rivers (dumb exploitive play but I think it works pretty well in this particular spot).

always check back turn?

[Honeybadger]

To all those saying we should bet the river... what exactly are you hoping that villain is going to station it off against us with? Especially given our image is that of an old dude (i.e. he probably infers we are tight and wouldn't bet the river with worse than the nut flush). A good player is not going to call the river with a worse hand than ours, given the image that we have. And Phil Ivey is a pretty good player from what I hear. The nut flush is very close to the bottom of our perceived value range here, and going for thin value against Ivey is a dangerous and optimistic move to make.

As played it is an easy fold once he jams. We are at the bottom of our range and can have all the full houses (plus a few straight flushes ofc), so it's not like he's going to be bluffing us willy nilly. He's a great player, not some young aggro spewtard. If he has somehow soul read us for the exact hand that we have and is bluffing to make us fold this exact hand... well we just got outplayed by a great player. In all other circumstances though, if we call we just donated all our chips to a great player.

[GreekStein]

he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us

rofl!

[SuuPRlim]

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

So you think we should 3bf because he won't 4b us light and will just peel loads? I'm not sure that is an accurate assumption. I'd flat pre and play a single raised pot ip vs a range we dominate, but I could be convinced that 3b is better. Raise/call flop I think is best vs a thinking opponent with these stack sizes, he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us. Check back turn and bet/raise some rivers (dumb exploitive play but I think it works pretty well in this particular spot).

I think flatting is better than 3betting, pretty fine with 3betting although I wouldn't wanna do it in game, would rather play small pots vs Ivey even OOP he'll prolly have J8s, we'll flop an Ace and somehow won't win.

[action man]

We have AJs, we need Aaron, he's a wizard with AJ

[BorntoBubble]

We have AJs, we need Aaron, he's a wizard with AJ

[Patonius2000]

Im all for 3betting PF, just for value, we cant 5bet because this whole 4/6b business isn't an Ivey thing, he just peels lol. This being said I'm also in favor of the pot control argument, either I think is fine.

He can't exploit us with a river c/r because our range is too strong, coupled with the "Ivey Effect" which Im sure he'll be well aware will generally make people value bet tighter and hero-call wider vs him do we really think he is c/r jamming into a random players uncapped range  in a pot limit tournament? I'm yet to be convinced.

So you think we should 3bf because he won't 4b us light and will just peel loads? I'm not sure that is an accurate assumption. I'd flat pre and play a single raised pot ip vs a range we dominate, but I could be convinced that 3b is better. Raise/call flop I think is best vs a thinking opponent with these stack sizes, he has plenty of room to go Paul Jackson on us. Check back turn and bet/raise some rivers (dumb exploitive play but I think it works pretty well in this particular spot).

always check back turn?

Not necessarily, I think betting is fine. Just offering this as an alternative line because I think the default for most people would be to bet here close to 100%. I think a check is pretty effective because I doubt we get two streets off worse and his turn check range should be fairly polarised. Checking back allows us to get called v frequently by the strong part of his range otr, we can also go for pretty big value and bet close to pot. Also, we cap our range and can justify calling the river when he rips it