Cmon England!!!!

[George2Loose]

Actually agree with Mantis. Surely strikers and midfielders/dead ball specialists should be taking penalties before defenders?

[jakally]

So would I. But at the end of the day, there is clearly a reason why he stepped up instead. I remember a lot of the argie game. Had to beg my mum to let me stay up when if i asked my dad he'd have snapped said yes. Ended up crying having watched Beckham, my hero, get sent off. Lol at David Batty.

vs Argentina in 98 was probably my lowest point following England.
From the high of the Owen goal, to the Beckham sending off, then me and my mate throwing beer everywhere when Sol Campbell 'scored', only to look round about 15 seconds later to see the Argies attacking.
Such a great game, and, as much as I've willed England on this time, no comparison in terms of entertainment, and emotional swings.

[rfgqqabc]

Actually agree with Mantis. Surely strikers and midfielders/dead ball specialists should be taking penalties before defenders?

I agree too, in theory. It clearly isn't the case though. I think the guy in charge thought this too. If AC had shanked 50+ in training, but Woy made him step up to take one, and he fires 1000 feet into the air, and the fact leaked, would people be saying its Roy's fault? He choose the best players in his experience, not the ones that "should" take the pens. Interestingly enough, all of Italy's pen takers were midfielders or strikers.

[BorntoBubble]

I Remember back in the day when irwin used to take penalties for united. i think it should just purely be a case of your best penalty takers who can deal with pressure no matter what position they play!

[david3103]

I'm not happy to be doing this (defending cAshley Cole) but skip forward to 3.00 and then tell me you wouldn't want hm taking a penalty in a shoot out.

he's a senior player and more used than most to the pressures

[superwomble]

Jamie Carragher was brought on at the end of extra time in one game because he was one of the best penalty takers in the squad

Carragher was brought on to take a penalty because Tord Grip remembered he took one and scored in the CL shootout vs Milan. Unfortunately, Carragher did not take a penalty in that game. Glad our management team were so clued up on their players 

[rfgqqabc]

I'm not happy to be doing this (defending cAshley Cole) but skip forward to 3.00 and then tell me you wouldn't want hm taking a penalty in a shoot out.

he's a senior player and more used than most to the pressures

Players who walk away from the ball, facing the goal, are 10-15% more likely to score. The difference in body language between the Chelski one and England pen he took are amazing.

[MANTIS01]

Defender Carragher missed. Yet England's top goalscorer that season and specialist striker Peter Crouch didn't take one. Defender Stuart Pearce missed in Italia 90 with Gazza not taking one. Defender Gareth Southgate missed in Euro 96 with Mcmanaman/Anderton not taking one. Euro 2012 both fullbacks in our top 5 with £35m striker AC not taking one. Don't mind specialists like Irwin stepping up but choosing reg defenders when goal scoring talent is available seems tez.

[outragous76]

Actually agree with Mantis. Surely strikers and midfielders/dead ball specialists should be taking penalties before defenders?

Stuart pierce?

[George2Loose]

Did say dead ball specialists.

Gazza understandably didn't take one although as he would have been suspended for the final and was probs feeling sorry for himself rather than trying to drag his country to the final as Roy Keane did against Juventus in 1999

[david3103]

Mantis is being mischievous. Andy Carrol's penalty taking record is poor and the skillset needed to be a big target man and scorer of towering headers is not the same skillset as that needed to score a penalty. Mantis knows this.

I have absolute faith in Roy and his team having done their homework and selected the best first five available on the pitch at the time based on training ground work.

Ultimately Ashley Young was the width of the crossbar away from scoring.

Cole's penalty looked very much the product of two hours of ceaseless strife and the pressure of the situation. If Young's penalty is say 6" lower, Cole's is so much easier. Ifs and buts, ifs and buts.

Remember this; before the tournament started we were only vaguely hopeful of getting through the group stage in 2nd place...

[AndrewT]

If I had a striker on the pitch, presumably it's because I think he's got a chance of scoring some goals, that he wants to score goals, and he might be quite good at it given half a chance.

"Here son, fancy a chance at scoring a goal. Right in the centre of the area, no defenders anywhere near you and only the keeper to beat"

"No thanks"

"WTF?  GTFO."

[MANTIS01]

Mantis is being mischievous. Andy Carrol's penalty taking record is poor and the skillset needed to be a big target man and scorer of towering headers is not the same skillset as that needed to score a penalty. Mantis knows this.

I have absolute faith in Roy and his team having done their homework and selected the best first five available on the pitch at the time based on training ground work.

Ultimately Ashley Young was the width of the crossbar away from scoring.

Cole's penalty looked very much the product of two hours of ceaseless strife and the pressure of the situation. If Young's penalty is say 6" lower, Cole's is so much easier. Ifs and buts, ifs and buts.

Remember this; before the tournament started we were only vaguely hopeful of getting through the group stage in 2nd place...

Lol at mischievious. When you think England have a 17% success rate in shootouts it's hard to think it's all down to bad luck. Strikers train day in day out to hit the corners of the net and strike the ball with power. Defenders don't hone those skills. So when defenders step up under pressure to take a penalty the corners of the net seem too risky and very narrow so they tend to play safe and shoot at central areas, and they often scuff the shot.

Italia 90 Pearce, Euro 96 Southgate, France 98 Batty, Germany 06 Carragher all hit their penalties into central areas. Most of those shots were not hit cleanly either. I reckon AC has a harder shot than Andy Cole and is much better trained at hitting the corners of the net, so don't know why he isn't the better option. With England it seems the senior players want to step up to show they are proper men.

Also didn't agree with these low expectations for a competition Denmark and Greece have won in recent times. We had the Man Utd forwards, the captain of Chelsea, the captain of Liverpool, Man City regs, and every other player is on big money to play in the premier league. I didn't expect to be bashed up in every game really. Think we had 9 shots on target all tournament.

[Ricardov83]

Apologies if I am repeating people here but, although the penalty takers are pre-determined to an extent, it is a loose arrangement between manager and player. 

Psychology and mindset are a massive part of hitting a pen and I would expect that a manager would take this into account after the final whistle of extra time.

He will be scanning his players faces and body language looking for any clues of their positivity and confidence as they engage with teammates and medical staff. 

He will also ask the players if they are still willing to step up and take the most important and pressure filled kick of their life in front of thousands of fans and millions worldwide. 

He will be relying on these players to be honest. 

He will ensure them that it does not reflect adversely on them if they withdraw themselves and that other players are happy to step in. 

He will take all of these factors into account before selecting his 5 and the order.

In short, managers have to be flexible with their choices in penalty shootouts and players have to be truthful and understanding whatever happens.

All this because I didn't like that Mantis got called stupid!

[david3103]

Pretty sure that forwards miss penalties in shootouts too..
Ronaldo vs Chelsea in Moscow, Beckham vs Argentina in Japan, Waddle vs Germany in France
off the top of my head
posting from phone so cba to search for stats but I don't believe that being a defender means you can't take penalties.
Few keepers have been pretty succesful in that area over the years.