Issues Arising from Staking

[Gemini Kings]

It seems fair to split costs associated with exchanging money.

Re tipping. I had no clue what % was expected and after a decent win I left what amounted to 1% tip. I went home and thought I had been a little on the mean side so I researched tipping in live poker tournaments on line.
The consensus was that 2 to 3% was the norm.

Next time I went to DTD I asked one of the staff there and they stated the same. They stated that DTD do not withhold Any % from the prize pool for tips.

On my next smaller cash I left 25% to go towards my previous shortfall and ease my conscience and I have left 3% on each occasion since. Is 2 to 3% the norm or not in the Uk?

In a staking agreement I think the tip should be agreed upon in advance and that it should be shared by both parties.

If you don't trust the player to be honest in how much tip they leave then maybe you shouldn't be doing business with them in the first place. However if I was being staked I would, for the sake of transparency, ask for a receipt for the amount of tip and explain to them why.

[cambridgealex]

I think tipping % shouldn't be a linear function and should go down in percentage terms as the amount won goes up. For example for a £20k score I might tip £400, but for a £100k score, I probably tip £1k and certainly wouldn't feel mean about it.

Obviously if they "rake" tips from the prizepool then not tipping at all is totally fine like we did in Marbella.

[Dubai]

Not a fan of tipping, just add it to the night out fund and treat those people you actually like to a good time instead.

[Simon Galloway]

Not a fan of tipping, just add it to the night out fund and treat those people you actually like to a good time instead.

That's what some of the "tippers" were doing anyway

[treefella]

Shouldn't just tip for the sake of it or 'because it's the norm'
Tipping should be like everything else in life, i.e if you felt you have had great service , enjoyed yourself and want to give a thank you 'drink' then its cool . Just ridic to start tipping 1k  + etc unless you wanna be balla  : ) 

[dreenie]

I don't understand why my staking thread keeps getting bought up tbh.. I thought I was more than honest in my post, yes I did not put the screen names, but then I did post them as soon as someone said something about it. I agree I should have put them on straight away tho.

When Guy questioned it, he was obviously talking to James, hence the reply he got, that's Jame's opinion and none of my business. If James had slated me for putting the post up, I wouldn't have cried about it, I would have took his points, removed the post and not put one up again. As it stands I had said that if we won on the package or when I get the money I am owed (maybe 2 weeks), then I will pm the original investors and see if they would like a slice of my schedule @spot rate, where I would usually sell X amount of % off at a mark up. So I felt it was saying up front that the deal was not great on this occasion, these are the reasons, but if you are interested next time, u can buy pieces @ spot so it makes up for the 1st stake a little.

All he did was basically say nice op and good luck, yes I like him, I respect his game and him as a person. If he had been harsh to me, I would have took at as I respect his judgment on this topic.

If I put these type of staking threads every other week, I could understand, but I don't, I thought I made it quite clear why I put that sort of thread in the OP. It's like the 'bidding' staking some people will refuse to buy it, and some might give it a go, usually if they know you well etc this will be the latter.

Yes I could have just waited, and in hindsight now I wish I had. I don't see why everyone is going on about me being Jame's fan girl. I like him and wish him to do well, just like many other blonde members, I don't sit at home anti sweating people to lose money, never have never will, but If I have met them, played with them and spoke to them before I am more likely to rail them harder than others.

Anyway, I won't put up that sort of thread again, as quite rightly it's not the greatest deal for the investors.

[dreenie]

tipping is old school & the only places i would now tip are my local (dtd) & possibly places like luton where i know many of the staff.

in the past you tipped, it went in the TDs pocket & you pretty much had no idea where it went...i look back & lol at the lack of transparency in these situations.

when pete binked in marbella recently i urged him not to tip; the organisers now usually take a % for staff as well as a reg fee & is was comical to see various floor staff cosy up to players as the big money loomed.

so yeah, if i scoop the ME next year glgl harrahs trying to get a $ out of me.

#tightisright

+1 to this

[rfgqqabc]

I don't understand why my staking thread keeps getting bought up tbh.. I thought I was more than honest in my post, yes I did not put the screen names, but then I did post them as soon as someone said something about it. I agree I should have put them on straight away tho.

When Guy questioned it, he was obviously talking to James, hence the reply he got, that's Jame's opinion and none of my business. If James had slated me for putting the post up, I wouldn't have cried about it, I would have took his points, removed the post and not put one up again. As it stands I had said that if we won on the package or when I get the money I am owed (maybe 2 weeks), then I will pm the original investors and see if they would like a slice of my schedule @spot rate, where I would usually sell X amount of % off at a mark up. So I felt it was saying up front that the deal was not great on this occasion, these are the reasons, but if you are interested next time, u can buy pieces @ spot so it makes up for the 1st stake a little.

All he did was basically say nice op and good luck, yes I like him, I respect his game and him as a person. If he had been harsh to me, I would have took at as I respect his judgment on this topic.

If I put these type of staking threads every other week, I could understand, but I don't, I thought I made it quite clear why I put that sort of thread in the OP. It's like the 'bidding' staking some people will refuse to buy it, and some might give it a go, usually if they know you well etc this will be the latter.

Yes I could have just waited, and in hindsight now I wish I had. I don't see why everyone is going on about me being Jame's fan girl. I like him and wish him to do well, just like many other blonde members, I don't sit at home anti sweating people to lose money, never have never will, but If I have met them, played with them and spoke to them before I am more likely to rail them harder than others.

Anyway, I won't put up that sort of thread again, as quite rightly it's not the greatest deal for the investors.

I brought it up as no slight on you, imo the market should be free and open to any deals, whereas Keys prefers a more moderated approach, but he seemed to not mentioned the standard OPR/Sharkscope thing, which i wanted to bring up. That got spoke about but I don't think anyone specifically mentioned your thread being a bad deal etc, in fact with some of the people buying pieces, i would have taken a bit myself if i had the funds free.

[henrik777]

I don't understand why my staking thread keeps getting bought up tbh.. I thought I was more than honest in my post, yes I did not put the screen names, but then I did post them as soon as someone said something about it. I agree I should have put them on straight away tho.

When Guy questioned it, he was obviously talking to James, hence the reply he got, that's Jame's opinion and none of my business. If James had slated me for putting the post up, I wouldn't have cried about it, I would have took his points, removed the post and not put one up again. As it stands I had said that if we won on the package or when I get the money I am owed (maybe 2 weeks), then I will pm the original investors and see if they would like a slice of my schedule @spot rate, where I would usually sell X amount of % off at a mark up. So I felt it was saying up front that the deal was not great on this occasion, these are the reasons, but if you are interested next time, u can buy pieces @ spot so it makes up for the 1st stake a little.

All he did was basically say nice op and good luck, yes I like him, I respect his game and him as a person. If he had been harsh to me, I would have took at as I respect his judgment on this topic.

If I put these type of staking threads every other week, I could understand, but I don't, I thought I made it quite clear why I put that sort of thread in the OP. It's like the 'bidding' staking some people will refuse to buy it, and some might give it a go, usually if they know you well etc this will be the latter.

Yes I could have just waited, and in hindsight now I wish I had. I don't see why everyone is going on about me being Jame's fan girl. I like him and wish him to do well, just like many other blonde members, I don't sit at home anti sweating people to lose money, never have never will, but If I have met them, played with them and spoke to them before I am more likely to rail them harder than others.

Anyway, I won't put up that sort of thread again, as quite rightly it's not the greatest deal for the investors.

You asked for staking and got it so it really doesn't matter. The penalty for a really shit staking thread is lack of stakers. You didn't get penalised so there is no point listening to any critics in this regard. Obviously the penalty is harsher on people like me who'd struggle with a shit staking request because nobody has met me rather than people like you because you know a few people in the game but that really wouldn't give me a valid complaint.

Don't take any shit to heart, nobody was conned and you got what you asked for. You wouldn't get extra for artistic impression.

Sandy

[skolsuper]

OK, since now we're talking specifics:

1. A 70/30 stakeback deal over a lot of tournaments is actually not bad. When people started using the 70/30 w/stakeback to sell for a single comp and disguise >1.4 markup that was different. Dreenie there was nothing outrageous (no pun intended) about the terms of your staking request, IMHO.

2. People having a go at me for "not being fair" unless I'm as harsh on dreenie as I am on Guy (outragous76), surely someone selling for high stakes mtts like the sunday 500 and 100r should have to post a little more info than someone who doesn't just take the piss and play as high as they can get away with, but includes a wide range of tournaments from $8.80s up to the bigger 162 and mill. Even if not, I got the impression dreenie just forgot to include a link to her opr and wasn't trying to hide anything, unlike Guy who posted "Not posting graphs and stuff (sorry Mr Keys)." in his thread selling for aforementioned high stakes mtts, at a markup of 1.14. The attitude is terrible imo, especially considering he'd just quit a long term stake whilst in makeup, but even then I wasn't exactly scathing; I just put "If people want to buy at markup in someone who doesn't want to post an OPR then good luck to them.", apparently this is police brutality as far as Guy is concerned, and blatant cliqueyness and favouritism according to a lot of others.

Thread:
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=58067.0

Like I said at the time, yeah I wasn't consistent and I'm sorry I said anything, but I'm not doing it solely to be a dick, Guy has had problems in the past and threads like his are the reason I started trolling OPs in the staking boards, to get more info in OPs and prevent people getting (not asking for, I'm actually not in favour of more moderating) staking higher than is profitable, and to prevent stakes going bad through ambiguity. However dreenie's thread did not seem to me to threaten either of those outcomes. I agree though that if I was being totally impartial I would have asked for links, apologies to anyone who feels let down.

[skolsuper]

Re: the general points around exchange rates and tipping, my 2 cents:

The horse pays the costs of conversion into the currency of the buyin, unless specified in the OP. Usually I just add a little markup in my head to account for this, although when I did an auction for the WSOP I specified a +0.5% charge to anyone paying in non-dollars because I couldn't set the markup.

The backers are due any winnings in the currency the tournament paid out, and they pay the cost of conversion if they request another currency. Usually this means the horse and backers are in the same boat and the horse will endeavour to get the best rate for his own money at the same time as changing the backers' money. Where this isn't the case I would say the backer has the right/responsibility to tell the horse the best way to convert the money or collect it in the payout currency and convert it themselves.

Don't tip at all if something for the dealers has been deducted from the prizepool already, unless you want to of course. In Australia I left a tip* on behalf oh all my backers, and with our horses Keith and I split the cost of the tip with the horse, since they mainly only win in DTD and we like the dealers there, but actually I think in general that the horse ought to be responsible for tipping, since it is a service charge and the backers haven't really received the service (right? not 100% on this).

*It was actually a charity donation which the crown then doubled, actual tips were not allowed. The amount was <1% and nothing had been deducted from the prizepool so it was a pretty good deal I think, however I still offered the backers the chance to opt out anonymously, which nobody took.

[david3103]

I have comparatively little experience of being in a position where a tip is expected, but I'm pretty sure that had I ever said "nope, i won it and i intend to keep it all" I would not be very popular on my return to the room in future. So why not agree policy on tips beforehand?

Backers have received the 'service' insofar as the intangible external issues which merit the tip have contributed to the win. Plus, where there is no deduction from prizepool it's -ve for future goodwill from the venue which must surely be -ve for future stakings there.

[MANTIS01]

OK, since now we're talking specifics:

1. A 70/30 stakeback deal over a lot of tournaments is actually not bad. When people started using the 70/30 w/stakeback to sell for a single comp and disguise >1.4 markup that was different. Dreenie there was nothing outrageous (no pun intended) about the terms of your staking request, IMHO.

2. People having a go at me for "not being fair" unless I'm as harsh on dreenie as I am on Guy (outragous76), surely someone selling for high stakes mtts like the sunday 500 and 100r should have to post a little more info than someone who doesn't just take the piss and play as high as they can get away with, but includes a wide range of tournaments from $8.80s up to the bigger 162 and mill. Even if not, I got the impression dreenie just forgot to include a link to her opr and wasn't trying to hide anything, unlike Guy who posted "Not posting graphs and stuff (sorry Mr Keys)." in his thread selling for aforementioned high stakes mtts, at a markup of 1.14. The attitude is terrible imo, especially considering he'd just quit a long term stake whilst in makeup, but even then I wasn't exactly scathing; I just put "If people want to buy at markup in someone who doesn't want to post an OPR then good luck to them.", apparently this is police brutality as far as Guy is concerned, and blatant cliqueyness and favouritism according to a lot of others.

Thread:
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=58067.0

Like I said at the time, yeah I wasn't consistent and I'm sorry I said anything, but I'm not doing it solely to be a dick, Guy has had problems in the past and threads like his are the reason I started trolling OPs in the staking boards, to get more info in OPs and prevent people getting (not asking for, I'm actually not in favour of more moderating) staking higher than is profitable, and to prevent stakes going bad through ambiguity. However dreenie's thread did not seem to me to threaten either of those outcomes. I agree though that if I was being totally impartial I would have asked for links, apologies to anyone who feels let down.

Since we're talking specifics...

- You said Guy's staking threads had all predictably turned to shit
- You say his behaviour and attitude are terrible
- You highlight how he touts for staking after previously quitting on backers
- You state his actions are REALLY bad
- You highlight there is lots of evidence he is a losing player
- You imply he omits this info from his staking requests, presumably to deceive people and acquire further staking
- You say he just wants to play big comps on other people's money and he takes the piss

This kinda sabotages his prospects of future staking. I don't know why an ordinary member thinks that is a fair and reasonable thing to do.

In the Railtard thread...

- You say it's only a blip
- You highlight his successful reformation
- You highlight how much money he (and thus any backers) can make from poker
- You sympathise how he must feel hard done by
- You say his behaviour is disappointing but not surprising

This kinda enhances his prospects of future staking.

As an ordinary member you can pretty much post whatever opinion you want about people, but your opinions are a long way short of fair.

[Longy]

I think the mistake(s) Keys has made in his official role, is showing bias in his language and leniency towards people who does and doesn't like.

I thought his posts in the railtard thread were way too kind, though none of what he stated were incorrect statements.

Whereas in regard to Guy (Outragous) he has been very scathing in his language, but Guy has really dropped the ball imo and without Keys has taken virtually no "stick" for his actions. Leaving a deal with makeup and then going to seek backing elsewhere in a very short space of time is really really bad, yet very little was said (think there was 1 or 2 posts from Amatay questioning it).

[Acidmouse]

I think the mistake(s) Keys has made in his official role, is showing bias in his language and leniency towards people who does and doesn't like.

I thought his posts in the railtard thread were way too kind, though none of what he stated were incorrect statements.

Whereas in regard to Guy (Outragous) he has been very scathing in his language, but Guy has really dropped the ball imo and without Keys has taken virtually no "stick" for his actions. Leaving a deal with makeup and then going to seek backing elsewhere in a very short space of time is really really bad, yet very little was said (think there was 1 or 2 posts from Amatay questioning it).

Didn't guy suggest there were reasons for cutting/stopping the original deal? or was this pm'ed to all backers as private?  Did keys have a stake in Railtard? if so its more than a little hypocritical.