Grand Prix Hand

[pleno1]

Dont let him play perfectly.

Seems unlikely

Yeh let's not get carried away. It's the grand prix. Just shove

What have you. 2 read the op? If he has nothing then he isn't goIng tO call a shove.

When we say play perfectly it means call his gOod hands fold his bad hands.  If we give him space he could make bad peels and/or spew.

Jamming just seems like arghhhh I'm scared 2 hearts gotta gOnall in before the 3rd one comes.

What hand is he raising with ? ...the way I see it hes more or less commited to any shove unless its a stone cold bluff.

he has 100k? he only put in 25? he can and live player defintiely will fold most of their range in this spot imo.

[smashedagain]

Dont let him play perfectly.

Seems unlikely

Yeh let's not get carried away. It's the grand prix. Just shove

What have you. 2 read the op? If he has nothing then he isn't goIng tO call a shove.

When we say play perfectly it means call his gOod hands fold his bad hands.  If we give him space he could make bad peels and/or spew.

Jamming just seems like arghhhh I'm scared 2 hearts gotta gOnall in before the 3rd one comes.

What hand is he raising with ? ...the way I see it hes more or less commited to any shove unless its a stone cold bluff.

he has 100k? he only put in 25? he can and live player defintiely will fold most of their range in this spot imo.

Rule number one is Dtd players don't fold

[brookie]

sorry but if it was me i putting it all in

[pleno1]

im open to be talked around, i've given all my opinions why it is superior to 3bet.

everyone who has said shove has either just said, well id go all in, or guess im all in, or sorry id shove. doesnt help op or the argument

[George2Loose]

im open to be talked around, i've given all my opinions why it is superior to 3bet.

everyone who has said shove has either just said, well id go all in, or guess im all in, or sorry id shove. doesnt help op or the argument

OK reasons I'd shove:

1) If you 3 bet the flop, in a comp like this, you're very unlikely to induce spazz outs. Players play quite straightforward.

2) There's a chance opponent will just flat a 3 bet with an ace where a ton of turn cards kill our action whereas when we shove he can call flop perhaps putting us on a draw with a number of hands.

3) Again if he does have a draw, he may just call the flop if we 3 bet. Again if opponent bricks the turn we may miss some value from draws.

Only problem I see with jamming is that people do like to hero fold. It would be opponent dependant. Generally in comps like these people play too tight or over value their hands. Against a tight player I might just 3 bet flop, against those who over value top pair I just jam and stack those chips when they're drawing dead.

[EvilPie]

I'd shove.

Pretty sure that if I had a big flush draw here I'd shove.

To balance this out I also like to shove when I have a set.

Shoving really makes it look like we want the other guy to fold so he may well hero call with a random Ax hand.

If he's got a flush draw himself he isn't putting 25k in to fold to a shove with 2 cards to come. If we min it and he flats to see a turn he may well get away from our turn shove with only the river to come.

[pleno1]

when playing in live bowl comps, balance should be one of the last things we concentrate on whilst getting the max chips in each individuali hand should be number 1 priority.

[Junior Senior]

Butchered it is a bit strong. I felt you could have got the lot if played differently.  I actually think jamming is fine against most but you fold out things you are beating such as semi bluffs and weak aces against a tighter player. The opponent was tight but not ridic tight. He clearly had something and i would suspect he thought you werent full of shit either, so when you jam he has to put you on AQ, 99 or AA and flush draws. Which means if he thinks yiu are not drawing he is going to fold his AK.  If you flat his raise and then check back the turn you may get the lot as he may think he can take yiu off it or his Ak is good.

I also think he had you down as tightish, as you had played sloid not really getting out of line. 

he has just started posting on here as aggers so lets ask him

[craigbetts]

Almost certain villain in hand had AJ. TBF, 'Butchered' was probably my wording Greg, but I tell Deano he Butchers most hands (easy to do when your on the rail as often as me!!)

I'd say he did lose his customer but if we define Villains hand as AJ can we really get anymore?? Flatting his 3bet and surely he should know hes beat, so maybe one more value bet whether that be turn or river would get paid. Clicking back can leave villain with a decision esp if hes getting married to his hand and if you add in that villain had 3b Deano pre in the previous hand and a mini dynamic was evolving. This could and would have been the nut option leaving villain to level himself into thinking he has a better holding than you and him doing his chips.

[smashedagain]

The vast majority of players in that comp bust or do most of their stack with top pair, just a plain simple fact.  Check out the final table of the last one. Full of old boys who did not over value top pair and stacked those people who did.

[GreekStein]

when playing in live bowl comps, balance should be one of the last things we concentrate on whilst getting the max chips in each individuali hand should be number 1 priority.

I think it looks absurdly strong when we make it like 45k - think he can hero fold hands like top and bottom or bottom two when we do this.

Think shove is better.

[pleno1]

so we think that they will clal the all in with Ax but fold A9 (two pair) when we raise?

ok. in my argument i figured they are NEVER EVER folding these kind of hands.

[aggers]

I was the villain in this hand. Bit dubious posting in this thread (and revealing my hand) as I obviously played it badly (it was 1 of 3 hands through the day I really wasn't happy with) but this was the main reason for me joining here - so the prospect of getting criticised on here will make me slow down and stop spewing.

I had... AJ. At the time I just saw Leatherman bet 8.5K into a 19K pot (I was in the CO, the BTN called behind me and the blinds folded) on a wet board and raised to protect my top pair.... Obviously didn't think things through well, just jumped on the fact it looked a weak lead on wet board. I know now I was either slightly ahead or way behind but just rushed my thoughts at the time (big problem of mine). A few hands before he had raised in EP with A7o and I won the pot when it was checked all the way down on a scary board, so I thought he may have been a bit annoyed with that. Also I didn't want the button calling behind as he was one of the better players at the table.

What should I have done?

Not gonna lie I would have raised and called the shove with AQ, but that looks terrible now.

[George2Loose]

I was the villain in this hand. Bit dubious posting in this thread (and revealing my hand) as I obviously played it badly (it was 1 of 3 hands through the day I really wasn't happy with) but this was the main reason for me joining here - so the prospect of getting criticised on here will make me slow down and stop spewing.

I had... AJ. At the time I just saw Leatherman bet 8.5K into a 19K pot (I was in the CO, the BTN called behind me and the blinds folded) on a wet board and raised to protect my top pair.... Obviously didn't think things through well, just jumped on the fact it looked a weak lead on wet board. I know now I was either slightly ahead or way behind but just rushed my thoughts at the time (big problem of mine). A few hands before he had raised in EP with A7o and I won the pot when it was checked all the way down on a scary board, so I thought he may have been a bit annoyed with that. Also I didn't want the button calling behind as he was one of the better players at the table.

What should I have done?

Not gonna lie I would have raised and called the shove with AQ, but that looks terrible now.

Flatting flop is superior to any other play

[EvilPie]

when playing in live bowl comps, balance should be one of the last things we concentrate on whilst getting the max chips in each individuali hand should be number 1 priority.

I wouldn't have to devote any of my precious concentration time on it. I'd just do it.

Getting the max chips out of the guy is the reason I try to make my hand look like I've got the flush draw.

In these 'live bowl comps' people always shove draws so it makes sense to shove made hands too imo.