Poker and promotion, the media and the game

[TightEnd]

Daniel Coleman wins the one drop, and declines any media

He posts on 2+2 the following, in the aftermath

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=43862667&postcount=2553

the counterpoint, understandably from a different perspective is given by Rich Ryan of Poker News on

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/07/five-thoughts-one-drop-winner-declines-media-ivey-wins-numbe-18695.htm


including the really quite dramatic picture of Daniel N doing lots of media in the background

Click to see full-size image.

the WSOP Director Ty Stewart had this to say


Ty Stewart @wsopSUITd  ·  19h

Players+ media/organizers have symbiotic relationship. The show biz brings the rec players+the prize pool+we need 2 keep it going long term.

   
Ty Stewart @wsopSUITd  ·  19h

But serious lack of info on biz side of poker in new world. Millions spent on that TV production, won't get back. Not even close.


On Colman, does he have (any) responsibility to help promote the game, and promote its growth (by extension, by helping itself market itself to recreational players by doing interivews and a bit of PR?)? 

[KitKeeper]

Responsibility?

No, none at all.

He paid his money to enter the tournament and if he'd lost, he wouldn't be asked for media feedback.

Totally up to him.

[AndrewT]

Didn't see Ty Stewart mention how much money the TV companies add to the prize pool.

All those sponsors logos behind Colman in that photo - how much did they add?

[arbboy]

[01:16:21] Stuart Doyle: you see the guy that won the one drop refused to give an interview afterwards..........
[01:16:24] Stuart Doyle: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=43862667&postcount=2553
[01:16:33] Stuart Doyle: this is his justification.....good for him
[01:21:59] Mark Wilson: pretty awesome
[01:22:05] Mark Wilson: i agree with a lot of what he says
[01:22:11] Stuart Doyle: yeah me too
[01:22:16] Mark Wilson: i find it really annoying when i am told i have to show my hole cards
[01:22:21] Mark Wilson: when i have paid £440
[01:22:23] Mark Wilson: to playa  gps
[01:22:26] Mark Wilson: to entertain people
[01:22:31] Mark Wilson: who have paid fuck all to see my hands
[01:22:36] Mark Wilson: and have nothing financially at stake
[01:22:47] Mark Wilson: which is a similar thing to him not wanting to do an interview
[01:22:53] Mark Wilson: if u pay full buy in urself
[01:22:54] Mark Wilson: to play
[01:22:57] Mark Wilson: u pay ur juice
[01:22:59] Stuart Doyle: totally
[01:23:01] Mark Wilson: and owe nothing to anyone
[01:23:13] Stuart Doyle: these firms make extra money after you have paid to play
[01:23:18] Stuart Doyle: by selling your rights
[01:23:21] Mark Wilson: yes
[01:23:23] Stuart Doyle: and put fuck all in
[01:23:27] Mark Wilson: camel used to go on about it
[01:23:37] Mark Wilson: if firms put up half the prize pool
[01:23:40] Mark Wilson: and u sign up to it
[01:23:45] Mark Wilson: its totally different
[01:23:47] Mark Wilson: but they dont
[01:23:55] Mark Wilson: the one drop
[01:23:59] Mark Wilson: is just for ego
[01:24:05] Mark Wilson: everyone pays rake to play
[01:24:13] Mark Wilson: but caesars get to sell the rights to espn
[01:24:17] Mark Wilson: for free
[01:24:23] Mark Wilson: its quite comical
[01:25:03] Stuart Doyle: I just love that he refused to play the game....they must be ripping their hair out
[01:25:34] Mark Wilson: fair play to him
[01:25:40] Mark Wilson: if i had organisd the staking myself
[01:25:43] Mark Wilson: i would do the same
[01:25:48] Mark Wilson: trickett et al
[01:25:53] Mark Wilson: cant because they are sponsored
[01:25:56] Mark Wilson: and sold their sole
[01:26:15] Mark Wilson: i always said to onny if i won a gukpt i would just take teh cash and fuck off
[01:26:20] Mark Wilson: no photos etc
[01:26:58] Stuart Doyle: it pissed me off at the ukipt when they got me to sign something after I had already played about 20 hands
[01:27:01] Mark Wilson: i have kicked off several times about not showing my hole cards
[01:27:03] Mark Wilson: esp at gps
[01:27:05] Mark Wilson: at southend
[01:27:33] Mark Wilson: they usually just back down
[01:27:42] Mark Wilson: why should i show my hands to everyone
[01:27:43] Mark Wilson: for free
[01:27:49] Mark Wilson: when i am playing for 50 large
[01:27:52] Mark Wilson: its comical
[01:28:00] Mark Wilson: and i have paid hard earned to do it
[01:28:11] Stuart Doyle: what do they expect?  you to show it after every showdown hand?
[01:28:18] Mark Wilson: exactly
[01:28:34] Mark Wilson: i said to the boss 'these live streams are stopping people playing poker'
[01:28:46] Mark Wilson: 'but u just dont realise it because the guys who stop u never see again'
[01:28:57] Mark Wilson: 'u just see the ego donks who love it and being on a stream'
[01:29:09] Mark Wilson: howmany guys owe cash/sign on/CSA etcetc
[01:29:14] Mark Wilson: dont want any of this shit
[01:29:17] Mark Wilson: and just wont play
[01:29:26] Mark Wilson: exwifes/kids etc
[01:29:35] Mark Wilson: bunking off work etc
[01:29:44] Mark Wilson: and risk jobs/houses/wifes etc
[01:29:48] Mark Wilson: for the sake of a game of poker
[01:30:25] Mark Wilson: i said to the card room manager 'why dont u show live streams of ur roulette table if you want to entertain people at home?'
[01:30:35] Mark Wilson: 'most of them would be a lot more entertaining than a ppoker mtt'
[01:31:11] Mark Wilson: i said 'i pay my rake to gamble in private in a private members club without anyone outside knowing what i am doing the same as roulette and bjack players do'

Had this discussion with redarmi on this last night.  Totally like his stance tbh.  Good luck to him not pandering to all the media who want a product for free from the actual people who pay to provide it.

[arbboy]

He has no more responsibility to grow the product than a lotto winner does to have his photos taken popping champers with a blow up cheque and promote the lotto to future potential new players.  He paid his money to enter the comp and he pays 10% rake to cover the ex's of promoting the comp amongst other things.  What the promotor chooses to do with that 10% is up to them.  The promoters are usually very lucky in that most people have huge egos and love all the PR as much as the money itself and they get all the advertising/promo for free.  The only reason they are kicking off this time is because the kid out smarted them.

[RED-DOG]

[01:16:21] Stuart Doyle: you see the guy that won the one drop refused to give an interview afterwards..........
[01:16:24] Stuart Doyle: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=43862667&postcount=2553
[01:16:33] Stuart Doyle: this is his justification.....good for him
[01:21:59] Mark Wilson: pretty awesome
[01:22:05] Mark Wilson: i agree with a lot of what he says
[01:22:11] Stuart Doyle: yeah me too
[01:22:16] Mark Wilson: i find it really annoying when i am told i have to show my hole cards
[01:22:21] Mark Wilson: when i have paid £440
[01:22:23] Mark Wilson: to playa  gps
[01:22:26] Mark Wilson: to entertain people
[01:22:31] Mark Wilson: who have paid fuck all to see my hands
[01:22:36] Mark Wilson: and have nothing financially at stake
[01:22:47] Mark Wilson: which is a similar thing to him not wanting to do an interview
[01:22:53] Mark Wilson: if u pay full buy in urself
[01:22:54] Mark Wilson: to play
[01:22:57] Mark Wilson: u pay ur juice
[01:22:59] Stuart Doyle: totally
[01:23:01] Mark Wilson: and owe nothing to anyone
[01:23:13] Stuart Doyle: these firms make extra money after you have paid to play
[01:23:18] Stuart Doyle: by selling your rights
[01:23:21] Mark Wilson: yes
[01:23:23] Stuart Doyle: and put fuck all in
[01:23:27] Mark Wilson: camel used to go on about it
[01:23:37] Mark Wilson: if firms put up half the prize pool
[01:23:40] Mark Wilson: and u sign up to it
[01:23:45] Mark Wilson: its totally different
[01:23:47] Mark Wilson: but they dont
[01:23:55] Mark Wilson: the one drop
[01:23:59] Mark Wilson: is just for ego
[01:24:05] Mark Wilson: everyone pays rake to play
[01:24:13] Mark Wilson: but caesars get to sell the rights to espn
[01:24:17] Mark Wilson: for free
[01:24:23] Mark Wilson: its quite comical
[01:25:03] Stuart Doyle: I just love that he refused to play the game....they must be ripping their hair out
[01:25:34] Mark Wilson: fair play to him
[01:25:40] Mark Wilson: if i had organisd the staking myself
[01:25:43] Mark Wilson: i would do the same
[01:25:48] Mark Wilson: trickett et al
[01:25:53] Mark Wilson: cant because they are sponsored
[01:25:56] Mark Wilson: and sold their sole
[01:26:15] Mark Wilson: i always said to onny if i won a gukpt i would just take teh cash and fuck off
[01:26:20] Mark Wilson: no photos etc
[01:26:58] Stuart Doyle: it pissed me off at the ukipt when they got me to sign something after I had already played about 20 hands
[01:27:01] Mark Wilson: i have kicked off several times about not showing my hole cards
[01:27:03] Mark Wilson: esp at gps
[01:27:05] Mark Wilson: at southend
[01:27:33] Mark Wilson: they usually just back down
[01:27:42] Mark Wilson: why should i show my hands to everyone
[01:27:43] Mark Wilson: for free
[01:27:49] Mark Wilson: when i am playing for 50 large
[01:27:52] Mark Wilson: its comical
[01:28:00] Mark Wilson: and i have paid hard earned to do it
[01:28:11] Stuart Doyle: what do they expect?  you to show it after every showdown hand?
[01:28:18] Mark Wilson: exactly
[01:28:34] Mark Wilson: i said to the boss 'these live streams are stopping people playing poker'
[01:28:46] Mark Wilson: 'but u just dont realise it because the guys who stop u never see again'
[01:28:57] Mark Wilson: 'u just see the ego donks who love it and being on a stream'
[01:29:09] Mark Wilson: howmany guys owe cash/sign on/CSA etcetc
[01:29:14] Mark Wilson: dont want any of this shit
[01:29:17] Mark Wilson: and just wont play
[01:29:26] Mark Wilson: exwifes/kids etc
[01:29:35] Mark Wilson: bunking off work etc
[01:29:44] Mark Wilson: and risk jobs/houses/wifes etc
[01:29:48] Mark Wilson: for the sake of a game of poker
[01:30:25] Mark Wilson: i said to the card room manager 'why dont u show live streams of ur roulette table if you want to entertain people at home?'
[01:30:35] Mark Wilson: 'most of them would be a lot more entertaining than a ppoker mtt'
[01:31:11] Mark Wilson: i said 'i pay my rake to gamble in private in a private members club without anyone outside knowing what i am doing the same as roulette and bjack players do'

Had this discussion with redarmi on this last night.  Totally like his stance tbh.  Good luck to him not pandering to all the media who want a product for free from the actual people who pay to provide it.

I have to say that I have a lot of sympathy for this argument. Lot's pf people profiting off players who put up their own prize money.

[Whollyflush]

in before little dave  

Its fairgame imo, he has no obligations and there may be several reasons for him doing this. Its a fairly grey area but his post on 2p2 seems like hes quite conflicted like a number of us probably are to a greater/lesser extent, he may not be media trained so doesn't see it as a suitable platform to express his opinion.

Worth noting is how a few in the media took to twitter and have since deleted their tweets. Poor form and lazy journalism.

[titaniumbean]

in before little dave  

Its fairgame imo, he has no obligations and there may be several reasons for him doing this. Its a fairly grey area but his post on 2p2 seems like hes quite conflicted like a number of us probably are to a greater/lesser extent, he may not be media trained so doesn't see it as a suitable platform to express his opinion.

Worth noting is how a few in the media took to twitter and have since deleted their tweets. Poor form and lazy journalism.

It's kewl that there's this massive hoohah over the player not doing an interview yet no hoohah over the casinos putting nothing in or the players not getting anything from the sponsors. Nor is there any real hoohah over the fact the venetian is still in business, still offering poker, still advertising it's poker on the t'interweb yet no online updaters are allowed oh and he's spending billions trying to kill off the online industry.

kewl story tho bro

[Junior Senior]

Hate those forms in GPS and UKIPT. I actually put mostly false info on my last UKIPT one because the TD said i would be DQd if i didn't fill it in. I filled it in. The information was mainly wrong as i don't want to be spammed by email or text. Its the data gathering i object to mainly.

Fair play to this guy.

[Sulphur man]

Read this early on today on 2+2 and thought fair play Mr Green. Why should all that matter to him in anyway.
Remember reading earliar in the year he said he would win a Mil and got flamed. Think he covered the Mil easy.

[TightEnd]

Negraneau's take on the issue

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&id=1404430849&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&

[Sulphur man]

Even a little mention of waiters ;-) He was of course a broke waiter not so long back. Got to love Mr G.