£60 6 max live, pre flop WWYD. Turn decision

[Young_gun]

Seat 1: Fishy + splashy player, seems to 4x and quite tilted by person on his right. Main history he likes to open UTG 1 pot previously which i will go into more detail in a seperate post where he opened UTG i 3 bet min and he shoved and showed AQ
Seat 2: Good aggro youngster, has been getting the luck alot but isnt too spewy. Played a few pots with me early on but since tit for tat prob reckons im solid
Seat 3: late 30's been calling behind seat 2 alot and playing small ball, not a bad player but not good either
Seat 4: tight player seems to play very abc
Seat 5, Only recently joined this orbit called behind a couple of times pre and not done much else
Seat 6: Moi

Blinds 400/800/100
Seat 5 open limps 800(36k approx behind)
Hero   raises to 2800(16k approx total) Should i be shipping here seems a bit steep + with fish + aggro behind thought they could raise or ship lighter
Seat 1 Folds
Seat 2 Folds
Seat 3 Folds
Seat 4 Fold
Seat 5 callls

I wont have much image with villain, no history previous especially as first live game in 4 months

So far would you raise more? or take a different line eg. ship as we have 20 bigs

[TL900]

nh so far

[gouty]

Pretty awkward stack size you have there. You need to hit this flop pretty hard. Sounds a tricky hand to play already but if he leads a

Actually where is the button? Is he utg? And you +1? I may be too pissed to see it?

[pleno1]

2500 pre.

[Young_gun]

Pretty awkward stack size you have there. You need to hit this flop pretty hard. Sounds a tricky hand to play already but if he leads a

Actually where is the button? Is he utg? And you +1? I may be too pissed to see it?

Yep he is UTG but its 6 handed, i will go onto the next street as they get more difficult for us mainly because of our stacksize

Good night Gouty?

[Young_gun]

Ok so borderline standard at the mo:

Our hand again is 

Flop  (cant remember what 3rd card is exactly)

Seat 6 checks to us, we have 13k and some small change. again villain has like 33k

Think there is a good case to either bet here or check, so what do you do?

[pleno1]

bet 900 or check both fine imo

[Young_gun]

bet 900 or check both fine imo

why 900 pad? like 7k in pot

[pleno1]

if we bet more hes never going to continue with a weaker hand and never folds a stronger hand. Betting small

- allows him to bluff raise a percentage of the time (he will never do this when we bet half pot or whatever as we are shallow

- allows him to randomly float alot of back doors and we can check back turn and call most river bets

- charges him a small premium to see a turn

- still allows us to bet again later

[Young_gun]

if we bet more hes never going to continue with a weaker hand and never folds a stronger hand. Betting small

- allows him to bluff raise a percentage of the time (he will never do this when we bet half pot or whatever as we are shallow

- allows him to randomly float alot of back doors and we can check back turn and call most river bets

- charges him a small premium to see a turn

- still allows us to bet again later

Very interesting, i have not gone down this line but it does make alot of sense.

[pleno1]

most of the time he is going to have a hand like j9s ro something and hes gonna be like arghhhhh raise and then fold and we win 3000 or whatever when he would check fold if we bet 3000

if he has a hand like 55 usually we bet 3000 and he calls and we check back and get to showdown. here he raises to 3000 and then he might fold when we go all in

we have a back door flush draw, a straight draw and 2 overs so if we do get it in vs a very weak hand its not the end of the world either.


also vs the solid players on the table it allows us to cbet smaller later and show a bigger profit as they will be less likely to bluff raise us

[Young_gun]

most of the time he is going to have a hand like j9s ro something and hes gonna be like arghhhhh raise and then fold and we win 3000 or whatever when he would check fold if we bet 3000

if he has a hand like 55 usually we bet 3000 and he calls and we check back and get to showdown. here he raises to 3000 and then he might fold when we go all in

we have a back door flush draw, a straight draw and 2 overs so if we do get it in vs a very weak hand its not the end of the world either.


also vs the solid players on the table it allows us to cbet smaller later and show a bigger profit as they will be less likely to bluff raise us

Lovely tekkers there shall i go to next action now? yeah go on then while your here 

Ok so we have approx 7k in pot its checked to us, i cbet 3000 thinking it will get through most the time. Turned my hand into a bluff here and seat 6 calls 3k

So Pot is 13k, we have around 13 back.

Turn we see 

He basically puts me all in, full board reads 

this is a sick spot right? Nut flush draw, straight draw, King or Ace could still be good

just to re-iterate blinds are 400/800/100 so if we fold we still have 15bigs

What range would you put the villain on? whats best fold or call?

[Tal]

Not a sick spot in the sense we are getting 2:1, are likely behind and don't have the odds to catch up. Easy fold.

Question is whether you could have drawn a fold at some point from villain or could have lost fewer chips.

First one seems straightforward: jamming pre feels needless to me, when we have enough chips to play with and an able but not scary table. Bet size is ok pre if you don't think there are many 3bets out there so then it is the flop bet. Pleno's idea is very interesting. If you're a wizard and know what you're going to do in each response from villain, this is quite an idea. I am less blessed, so bet something similar, but know what I'm doing if I get called and the turn comes a blank (depends partly on my read of villain - lol live poker players trying to do analysis, I know...). Turn is a blank and we have equity but we want fold equity, rather than equity after we call.

He has something. He might put you on AK but he's not flipping over JT very often after check calling you. Maybe a set.

Let it go, find a better spot and double up.

[Tal]

In a vacuum, the ratio of following Pleno:Tal is approximately 50:1.

Live, maybe 45:1

Just to give you some context

[gouty]

Pretty awkward stack size you have there. You need to hit this flop pretty hard. Sounds a tricky hand to play already but if he leads a

Actually where is the button? Is he utg? And you +1? I may be too pissed to see it?

Yep he is UTG but its 6 handed, i will go onto the next street as they get more difficult for us mainly because of our stacksize

Good night Gouty?

Must of been. Can't even remember posting that. I was gonna say if he leads any flop or calls any bet you have to give up due to wanky stack sizes.

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