River Decision

[Flash92]

Poker Stars $8.00+$0.80 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 9 players


Hero (CO): t8590       42.95 BBs
BTN: t10775       53.88 BBs
SB: 18.52 BBs
BB: 19.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is CO with 
5 folds, Hero raises to t400, BTN raises to t900, 2 folds, Hero calls t500

Flop: (t2100) : : : (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (t2100) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t1300, Hero calls t1300

River: (t4700) (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets t1900, Hero folds

Both Hero and Villain are running 21/19, Villain has 3B 10% and few hands ago 3B my SB steal and folded to a  small 4B.

After calling pre, checking flop and c/c turn do we have to call this river bet? - Feels like AK, AQ KQ, KJ?

Thoughts?

[tight4better]

Really don't like peeling a 3bet with this hand, especially OOP

[Rexas]

I'm with Nik on this one. The problem I have with calling a 3bet with this hand OOP is illustrated by the fold on the river. I think it's the right fold, but we've been put in an annoying situation by seeing a flop in a bloated pot out of position without the betting lead, and with an easily dominated hand that doesn't really flop that well. Once we see a flop, I actually think this is a well played hand. I think the river fold is right, the call is fine, so you're evidently confident and comfortable making good decisions post flop.

4 handed (if we are 4 handed?), aggression from position is key, like the villain demonstrates.

Thoughts?

[SuuPRlim]

meh, get into 50,000 more river decisions then come back to us.

[Oxford_HRV]

meh, get into 50,000 more river decisions then come back to us.

seems legit

[SuuPRlim]

Yeh I think at this limit peeling the 3bet is prolly bad, in theory it's a perfectly fine spot to 4bet, you're "making him go all-in" as Railtard says which is a fair bit of pressure, and your hand has a K in it which removes a few combo's of AK and KK which are hands we don't want our opponent to have if we 4bet! Obviously we fold should he put any more raises in past that point.

I think though folding is best because at this level they prolly just going to have a hand they are playing for value a LOT more often than they should have, which means peeling is bad vs a range with a LOT less air in it + we're OOP, and 4betting isn't THAT great because it's gonna work a lot less often. So I think fold is better preflop.

I think PRE-FLOP in these types of tournament the third bet is a LOT more powerful than the forth although that might be wrong.

Post-flop play actually looks fine to me.

[jgcblack]

meh, get into 50,000 more river decisions then come back to us.

seems legit

made me smile.... <3 dave

[rfgqqabc]

Yeh I think at this limit peeling the 3bet is prolly bad, in theory it's a perfectly fine spot to 4bet, you're "making him go all-in" as Railtard says which is a fair bit of pressure, and your hand has a K in it which removes a few combo's of AK and KK which are hands we don't want our opponent to have if we 4bet! Obviously we fold should he put any more raises in past that point.

I think though folding is best because at this level they prolly just going to have a hand they are playing for value a LOT more often than they should have, which means peeling is bad vs a range with a LOT less air in it + we're OOP, and 4betting isn't THAT great because it's gonna work a lot less often. So I think fold is better preflop.

I think PRE-FLOP in these types of tournament the third bet is a LOT more powerful than the forth although that might be wrong.

Post-flop play actually looks fine to me.

Whilst your general sentiment is absolutely spot on, I think you'd be surprised at how effective 4betting is. Probably want to wait until antes though. I would rather call with T7s then K9 off having been 3bet.

After calling the 3bet I think you play the hand perfectly. Really nasty river.

[Flash92]

Yeah I didn't love my call pre but he had been making some light 3Bs against me and felt that I had decent equity against his range.

But I understand it is going to be hard for me to play OOP, 4B or fold seems better.

Thanks all.

[rfgqqabc]

Yeh I think at this limit peeling the 3bet is prolly bad, in theory it's a perfectly fine spot to 4bet, you're "making him go all-in" as Railtard says which is a fair bit of pressure, and your hand has a K in it which removes a few combo's of AK and KK which are hands we don't want our opponent to have if we 4bet! Obviously we fold should he put any more raises in past that point.

I think though folding is best because at this level they prolly just going to have a hand they are playing for value a LOT more often than they should have, which means peeling is bad vs a range with a LOT less air in it + we're OOP, and 4betting isn't THAT great because it's gonna work a lot less often. So I think fold is better preflop.

I think PRE-FLOP in these types of tournament the third bet is a LOT more powerful than the forth although that might be wrong.

Post-flop play actually looks fine to me.

Whilst your general sentiment is absolutely spot on, I think you'd be surprised at how effective 4betting is. Probably want to wait until antes though. I would rather call with T7s then K9 off having been 3bet.

After calling the 3bet I think you play the hand perfectly. Really nasty river.
K9o is a fantastic hand. Go all in.

[cambridgealex]

Yeh I think at this limit peeling the 3bet is prolly bad, in theory it's a perfectly fine spot to 4bet, you're "making him go all-in" as Railtard says which is a fair bit of pressure, and your hand has a K in it which removes a few combo's of AK and KK which are hands we don't want our opponent to have if we 4bet! Obviously we fold should he put any more raises in past that point.

I think though folding is best because at this level they prolly just going to have a hand they are playing for value a LOT more often than they should have, which means peeling is bad vs a range with a LOT less air in it + we're OOP, and 4betting isn't THAT great because it's gonna work a lot less often. So I think fold is better preflop.

I think PRE-FLOP in these types of tournament the third bet is a LOT more powerful than the forth although that might be wrong.

Post-flop play actually looks fine to me.

Whilst your general sentiment is absolutely spot on, I think you'd be surprised at how effective 4betting is. Probably want to wait until antes though. I would rather call with T7s then K9 off having been 3bet.

After calling the 3bet I think you play the hand perfectly. Really nasty river.
K9o is a fantastic hand. Go all in.

[cambridgealex]

Yeah I didn't love my call pre but he had been making some light 3Bs against me and felt that I had decent equity against his range.

But I understand it is going to be hard for me to play OOP, 4B or fold seems better.

Thanks all.

Just ram home about preflop, I think regardless of how he'd been playing up to this point, you can't make calling this profitable. Even in position, I can't remember ever having peeled a 3bet with K9o, it's just such a dogshit hand!

You're crushed by his value range so so hard, and even dominated by his light 3bets! That's not a spot you want to be in!

So even if he's very aggressive, 3betting a lot etc, you're in a shit spot because he'll likely be aggro down the streets and K9o flops a KING you could veasily be fucked, flop a NINE same thing, even the straight K9 makes is dead to AK!

And if he's not aggressive, and 3betting a tight range, you're still fucked cos you need to make two pair+ to win!

So basically whoever it is, peeling preflop is going to be a bad play, I personally don't peel 3bets out of position with KJo or KTo so K9o is even worse!

So did you get my point yet?

I'm only going on about it because I think it's a very important point, and it'll be a big leak in your game if you're doing things like this on a consistent basis.

K9 suited now that's a different story.....

[Flash92]

Yea I understand, this was out of character for me tbh.

K9 suited now that's a different story.....

Is this hand really dissimilar?