FTOPS main lolriver

[lucky_scrote]

Jam pre-flop? Seriously? Am I way behind the times but this seems kinda bad...

Most people's ranges will be wide enough, and not calling joke wide, that we can profitably jam here.

Maths/Geeks rule the world.

surely there are miles better hands? Anything with a big card or a blocker would be miles better?

Q5s has the same equity (35.8%) as 75s in my example.

BTW this is in no way an argument for the OP that jamming is better. I think with no stats/history my favourite line is to just fold pre. Calling could be ok, but it's not what I'd do and I'd just never jam.

[mondatoo]

I would also just fold pre a lot, but I'm aware of this new 2013 trend of regs wanting to peel off 12-17bbs with this sort of hand were they can take off on loads of boards.

Dubai, the legend, said not to be a sheep, so I'm sticking to my guns and playing 2011 styleeeeeeeee

It will be the in thing again by 2015, just gotta grind it out.

[pleno1]

Yeh I peel joke wide from really shallow stacks. Like how bad is peeling j9s/q8s/96s going to be with 7bbs and no fold equity gong t be from somebody opening button with 25bb?

[SuuPRlim]

if 75s actually has 35% equity against a calling range, and people really are folding 66% of the time, then I stand corrected. I don't have any experience to back this up but that feels very bizarre to me...crazy tourneys hey!

Also does the fact Q6s takes 7 combo's of QQ and AQ out whereas 75s just takes 3 combo's of 77 away not factor in? Maybe 4 combo's doesn't make too much difference if you're dealing with wide calling ranges.

In reality he should stop opening on you if you're going to stick 75s in his eye.

Is it not better to just call off wider? That way you don't lose the dead chips when you have 83o in the BB and fold?

Thanks anyway Dan + Monda for taking the time

[TL900]

this is nothing to do with being a sheep, this is trying to exploit people for opening too wide and cbetting too wide.

If you add a cbet into your preflop odds (which is going to come such a high % of the time) then im getting 6+/1 on a call pre it just cant ever be bad.

[rfgqqabc]

Not sheepy at all, maybe off like 24-30bb this becomes standard but I think i fold off 16.

C/shove turn? Why do you think he is never folding, I mean people rarely give up on A high boards but if he has T5s with a backdoor then checking the flop seems fine. Really like the turn size as played. I was going to say bet small/fold but then we kinda cripple our stack if we lose. Its probably the line I take though.

[pleno1]

we wont have many Ax so not cbetting t5 would seem bad

[rfgqqabc]

we wont have many Ax so not cbetting t5 would seem bad

river easy c/f then?

[pleno1]

why? were at the tip top of our range. its anything but an easy fold.

[mondatoo]

this is nothing to do with being a sheep, this is trying to exploit people for opening too wide and cbetting too wide.

If you add a cbet into your preflop odds (which is going to come such a high % of the time) then im getting 6+/1 on a call pre it just cant ever be bad.

I was just joking around with the sheep comment, thought that was pretty obv

[willrobrobu]

i used to always peel these (on medium+ buyins on stars) as long as i had 10bigs back after the peel and they weren't someone who cbets massive so there is some fold eq left postflop when i ship the cbet. i've actually been reigning that in and will now only do it occasionally off 12-20bb trying to cherry pick the right opponent...if i've been paying enough attention.

i don't very often ship  these particular hands pre, though i'm sure it will be profitable a lot of the time. i'd rather ship these in lower buyin games, but that is specific to my game cos anyone that has a HUD is calling my shoves here too wide for it to be profitable :S