when an induce fails. $55 ante up turbo

[willrobrobu]

$55 ante up on stars. QQ and KK to an ace on the flop is usually fairly straightforward in my opinion
but in this spot i didn't know what to do cbet wise. should i just be sticking it in. or raise/folding?

no HUD and no reads other than maybe villain has been a bit more active than the average player

9 handed. blinds are 5/5/ ante is 60

UTG raises to 99 from large stack
folds to MP who reraises to 239 from stack of 2200 ish
next to act i 4b to 599 with QQ from stack of 2000 ish
folds all the way back to middle position 3better who flats.
flop is A28 rainbow; pot is about 1800, i have 1400 left. he is first to act and checks.

----

i'm sure lots of people will (with hindsight) say shove pre flop but I was obviously inducing someone to shove, and it's pretty rare IMO (on pokerstars) for someone to flat a third of the effective stack oop even with the big ante pool in the middle. i assumed that if he was bad enough to flat me oop there then he was bad enough to be doing it quite wide.

cant remember ever being in quite this position.
having got to here can i raise/fold in this sort of tourney with ante increasing every 5minutes? if so what should i bet when i'm planning to fold? half my remaining stack?
or do i have to just shove and pray?

[MC]

You should check

I don't think the word induce applies to a cold 4-bet btw

[willrobrobu]

hehe, i didn't realise the poker dictionary had hijacked the word induce from the english dictionary. apologies....

re checking - can you explain?
i feel if i were in his shoes i'd then be leading the turn 100% of the time.
so to me checking is the only thing that guarantees i lose the pot, unless u are checking to call later streets to allow him to bluff... but thats really unlikely here surely?

[MC]

I'm probably wrong, I guess you are inducing per cé, but you look super strong is what I mean.

By checking we induce () him to lead the turn. If he doesn't, probs just jam turn. I don't see much merit in jamming flop, we are essentially bluffing then, and bet/folding seems absurd.

Sorry if my tone sounded off, not intentional.

[youthnkzR]

If we jam flop then we are basically turning or hand into a bluff (well not exactly but we are never really gonna be called by worse). Whereas by checking flop we are giving him a chance to bet / jam turn as a bluff.

[The Squid]

I would check back and call all in on turn. I a turbo like this I don't think we can be giving up with so many chips in the middle.

I agree with other posters you should jam. Particularly in this tournament it wont look that odd and as 4-betting like this gives people chance to fold AQ, TT etc

[Doobs]

I would check back and call all in on turn. I a turbo like this I don't think we can be giving up with so many chips in the middle.

I agree with other posters you should jam. Particularly in this tournament it wont look that odd and as 4-betting like this gives people chance to fold AQ, TT etc

Agree with this.  People are more likely to get away from hands that we beat if we look super strong.  If we just jam our entire range of strong hands, they should probably be calling with hands that we crush such as AQ and 99.  I know I often struggle to put hands like these down vs a shover in this.  If they don't call, I can't see much downside to picking up 900 chips with QQ if we started with 2k.

[lucky_scrote]

So obvs never folding.

I think that if the peeler isn't terrible (which is questionable because of the peel) I'd just bet or jam. Stack to pot ratio is really small and if this is against a reg you can't just check all your good hands here because if you were somehow bluffing pre-flop (lol) then you are always going to be betting the flop. He ain't folding any pocket pairs or 8's.

If the guy is an absolute rofler of a fish then you could check back and get him to bluff or catch a pair and go with it but I even doubt many massive fish will go off on one when you've checked back after 4betting pre.

[lucky_scrote]

A lot of people also  don't realise how shallow this plays too, you've effectively started the hand with just over 10bb's. I'd assume that the guy peeling you is terrible but he might not realise that you're really shallow.

[pleno1]

Yeh this 4bet is absolutely to induce.

[lucky_scrote]

Yeh this 4bet is absolutely to induce.

You've saved the day.

[Pinchop73]

[pleno1]

think jamming turn is optimistc at best and most likely v bad. check back imo?

[MC]

Yeh this 4bet is absolutely to induce.

Ok my bad