Ukipt hand vs young gun

[wazz]

Effective stacks between me and utg are ~28k i think. He covers me by a decent chunk. Level 5. blinds 200/400/50. He is young and appears thinking.

The two relevant pieces of history are that a few hands after moving to the table, neither of us having played a hand in that time, i minned the button at 1/200, he 3b, I 4b small, he 5b, I call. Flop QJddX, he c-bets ~ 1/2pot, I fold, he shows K9o. Hand is relevant for my image as well (psr ~5 or 6 going to the flop, from memory).

Other hand thats relevant to his table image is that he showed down K2s after raising utg either 8 or 9-handed.

For my table image, other the hand above, I've been somewhat snug the last 4 or 5 orbits with the exception of one (probably bad) two-street bluff and one three-street ace-high calldown that worked out.

He opens utg+1 to 900, picks up 1 caller from LP and 1 caller from the sb. I have Q8o in the bb, getting almost 6-1 to complete.

I call. Flop Q86r, I'm 2/4 to speak. Pot is ~4k.

Got interesting turn and river decisions also but I'll leave it at lead vs c/r otf for meow.

[pleno1]

check raise flop keep betting on basically any run out that isnt 4 to a straight and 75% on turn and 75% on river unless he blanks off or we improve to a full house and then we can over bet river imo.

[youthnkzR]

check raise flop keep betting on basically any run out that isnt 4 to a straight and 75% on turn and 75% on river unless he blanks off or we improve to a full house and then we can over bet river imo.

All of this

[wazz]

Yeah I don't think flop is particularly interesting, I would consider leading on a twotone board but leading sandwiches my target in the hand, while if he cbets and I c/r he can float a lot wider.

Gets checked round. Turn is ie putting out a flush draw. I have the , and the is not on board.

Turn seems to be an obvious lead, sizing is up for debate, I chose to lead 2.5 into 4, original raiser meow makes it ~6.8, folds round back to me.

Fold, call, cib, jam?

If I call or cib, whats my plan for various rivers?

If i call, the pot will be ~17.5 with ~21k back. If i cib and he calls the pot will be 26k with 16.5k back.

[Pinchop73]

What is obvious to me about the turn is that the lead is awful vs described villain. Leading turn in a 4 way pot on a massively wet board? I mean we have a really good bluff catcher here, happy to let him get the barrels out

[Nit Tendencies]

Are you kidding pinchop? It's 4 way otf and the pf opener has checked (as I expect him to a lot on Qxx especially a slightly co-ordinated Qxx with the BB in the mix too), so he's either pot controlling a one pair hand or he's given up. It can very easily check through again and there aren't many good rivers for us, but plenty of hands with equity that might call one. Checking is terrible. MUST lead.

go between 2.8k and 3.5k, fold if raised.

[pleno1]

Are you kidding pinchop? It's 4 way otf and the pf opener has checked (as I expect him to a lot on Qxx especially a slightly co-ordinated Qxx with the BB in the mix too), so he's either pot controlling a one pair hand or he's given up. It can very easily check through again and there aren't many good rivers for us, but plenty of hands with equity that might call one. Checking is terrible. MUST lead.

go between 2.8k and 3.5k, fold if raised.

this, turn lead simplyz cannot be awful or even close to it.

[Pinchop73]

I just think bet folding (which we're going to do I would approximate >40%) is a big waste of a chunk of our stack. Oppo does not seem the type to simply call turn with a flush draw + gutter type hands that we'd be looking to get value from. I'd prefer to allow villain the opportunity to bet this type of hand, because we are more than likely to instigate another barrel from him when we check a brick river. If we bet and are called then we are only likely to see more chips from him on the river if he gets there.

This early in a 4day live comp I'm just looking to win reasonable sized pots with minimal risk to my stack.

[titaniumbean]

Got interesting turn and river decisions also but I'll leave it at lead vs c/r otf for meow.

I lol'ed so hard at this.


oh meowwww

[lucky_scrote]

Given his line I think he's going to show you TT here a bunch. I know it sounds absurd but unless he's really stupid he's going to peel with a flush draw/KJ type hand. Would be better for him to go multi way if he has a nut draw of some type, he doesn't have to worry about the 2 behind raising either.

He's put you in such a coffin here but I just think he always has it. The only other thing is that he could have 67 78 89 suited hearts which wouldn't be so great to get over-peeled behind and see a river card because he will be drawing to a second best hand too often so he could apply pressure with these hands and just see what happens.

Tell me he had tens.

[Oxford_HRV]

i'm not folding cus i dont like this guy now when we're folding to flop bet when 5b pre and getting shown K9o.

tell this guy he's your nemesis, then call.

[wazz]

I felt like his range was hugely populated by draws and didnt expect anyone to flat behind, and thought i would perceive his raise as extremely strong because hes repping such a narrow range.

Call the above optimistic, but I went with my read. I cibbed with the plan to check every river (or maybe lead tiny on Q/8/65432x).

He calls very quickly. River Ao, I check, he jams quickly, we?

[stato_1]

Turn is an absolute must lead. Checking is a huge leak imo. What to do now is pretty interesting not really sure. Don't think we can fold just yet and not a raise fan so guess call and re-evaluate. Usually the line I take when I haven't got a clue what to do!

[lucky_scrote]

Turn is an absolute must lead. Checking is a huge leak imo. What to do now is pretty interesting not really sure. Don't think we can fold just yet and not a raise fan so guess call and re-evaluate. Usually the line I take when I haven't got a clue what to do!

It's so difficult though because we don't really know what he has. If I knew him and thought he was pretty good, I'd be tempted to fold the turn. If he was a bit spazzy and took odd/aggro lines a bit too much then I'd call and fold all bad rivers.

[Flash92]

check raise flop keep betting on basically any run out that isnt 4 to a straight and 75% on turn and 75% on river unless he blanks off or we improve to a full house and then we can over bet river imo.

Patrick, what are your thoughts after it gets checked around on the flop and we get raised after leading the turn?

I'm interested to see how this changes what we do...