Shark's Scope

[verndog158]

It's far from dead, in fact volume is growing on some sites, but it does have problems which need dealing with if it is to resume overall growth. For starters, everyone needs to recognize how important the recreational players are. Collectively, they contribute most of the liquidity. And most of them have never been near a poker forum or any of the tracking sites. They just want a few hours fun in the evening while the family watch TV or whatever.

Indeed, and sharkscope isn't in the chatbox giving them grief.  It's the fucktard who's got not nothing better to do with his life than to abuse people online.  I wonder if banning the individual in question, then emailing the player who got abused explaining that sky poker were sorry about what happened at that steps had been taken to remove the person responsible from the game would have done more good than starting a thread saying that online poker was dead and that regs are bum hunting people through a website they never heard of?

surely then they just get a new email address and set up a new account anyway? but i agree with it totally.
however, if they did that, Rexas would be banned from everything under the sun!

[tikay]

It's far from dead, in fact volume is growing on some sites, but it does have problems which need dealing with if it is to resume overall growth. For starters, everyone needs to recognize how important the recreational players are. Collectively, they contribute most of the liquidity. And most of them have never been near a poker forum or any of the tracking sites. They just want a few hours fun in the evening while the family watch TV or whatever.

Indeed, and sharkscope isn't in the chatbox giving them grief.  It's the fucktard who's got not nothing better to do with his life than to abuse people online.  I wonder if banning the individual in question, then emailing the player who got abused explaining that sky poker were sorry about what happened at that steps had been taken to remove the person responsible from the game would have done more good than starting a thread saying that online poker was dead and that regs are bum hunting people through a website they never heard of?

I never said either of those things.

And maybe they did e-Mail the player & ban him, I never stated whether they did or did not.

The debate has been terrific though, very balanced imo, & some great points made for & against without any argy-bargy.

I like that Gif with the bloke & the chair though. Epic.


 

[Woodsey]

Maybe just get rid of chat boxes, they seem to cause hassle on a number of fronts.

[verndog158]

It's far from dead, in fact volume is growing on some sites, but it does have problems which need dealing with if it is to resume overall growth. For starters, everyone needs to recognize how important the recreational players are. Collectively, they contribute most of the liquidity. And most of them have never been near a poker forum or any of the tracking sites. They just want a few hours fun in the evening while the family watch TV or whatever.

Indeed, and sharkscope isn't in the chatbox giving them grief.  It's the fucktard who's got not nothing better to do with his life than to abuse people online.  I wonder if banning the individual in question, then emailing the player who got abused explaining that sky poker were sorry about what happened at that steps had been taken to remove the person responsible from the game would have done more good than starting a thread saying that online poker was dead and that regs are bum hunting people through a website they never heard of?

I never said either of those things.

And maybe they did e-Mail the player & ban him, I never stated whether they did or did not.

The debate has been terrific though, very balanced imo, & some great points made for & against without any argy-bargy.

I like that Gif with the bloke & the chair though. Epic.


 

 

[arbboy]

Just to clarify i said online poker was dead in comparison to the 2005-9 era.  Anyone that doesn't think it is is deluded beyond belief. Online poker will never get back to those levels of volume for numerous reasons and they are not just all related to poker. You have only had to read the financial results of gaming firms published in most of the poker mags found in poker rooms since 2010-11 to read constantly 'ladbrokes poker revenue down 12% yoy, betfair poker revenue down 17% yoy' etc etc.  The same applies for virtually every major poker site outside of the poker only skins of stars and tilt who are privately owned firms and don't publish their results.  The bottom line is the vast majority of these gaming firms honestly couldn't care less about poker revenue and spend virtually nothing recruiting specifically poker customers. its such a tiny % of the total income that if they could get rid of it totally without losing any of their customers in other areas then i am pretty certain they would.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's a loss leader for the vast majority of online gaming sites after all overheads/staff costs compared to the boom days when it was a big % of total revenue.

I am talking euro only sites here as well as i have never played on stars/tilt so the impact of the loss of american's doesn't make any difference as they were never there in the first place on the listed PLC gaming firms listed above since the 2005 USA legal issues.  You literally couldn't play the size of games i played (stt's) and volume of those games in 2013-4 because they simply don't exist to even play nowadays and if they did you would literally have virtually all winning reg's playing them against each other.  

Would be interesting to hear Dan Morgan's views on these volumes.  I bet he couldn't play heads up stt's in the size and/or volume he used to back in 2009?  I have no idea if he still plays them and how much he rakes a month now compared to in 2009 for example.

[verndog158]

Just to clarify i said online poker was dead in comparison to the 2005-9 era.  Anyone that doesn't think it is is deluded beyond belief. Online poker will never get back to those levels of volume for numerous reasons and they are not just all related to poker. You have only had to read the financial results of gaming firms published in most of the poker mags found in poker rooms since 2010-11 to read constantly 'ladbrokes poker revenue down 12% yoy, betfair poker revenue down 17% yoy' etc etc.  The same applies for virtually every major poker site outside of the poker only skins of stars and tilt who are privately owned firms and don't publish their results.  The bottom line is the vast majority of these gaming firms honestly couldn't care less about poker revenue and spend virtually nothing recruiting specifically poker customers. its such a tiny % of the total income that if they could get rid of it totally without losing any of their customers in other areas then i am pretty certain they would.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's a loss leader for the vast majority of online gaming sites after all overheads/staff costs compared to the boom days when it was a big % of total revenue.

I am talking euro only sites here as well as i have never played on stars/tilt so the impact of the loss of american's doesn't make any difference as they were never there in the first place on the listed PLC gaming firms listed above since the 2005 USA legal issues.  You literally couldn't play the size of games i played (stt's) and volume of those games in 2013-4 because they simply don't exist to even play nowadays and if they did you would literally have virtually all winning reg's playing them against each other.  

Would be interesting to hear Dan Morgan's views on these volumes.  I bet he couldn't play heads up stt's in the size and/or volume he used to back in 2009?  I have no idea if he still plays them and how much he rakes a month now compared to in 2009 for example.

Maybe ladbrokes etc etc dont promote it as they know they cant compete with sites such as stars? they cant possibly offer the bonuses and chance to win so much for so little as these sites, so whats the point? Plus these sites are gambling sites, with poker as a feature of. Stars, FTP etc are primarily poker sites.
Dont see how you can use your examples, who barely deal in poker to use as evidence that online poker is on the decline.

[arbboy]

Just to clarify i said online poker was dead in comparison to the 2005-9 era.  Anyone that doesn't think it is is deluded beyond belief. Online poker will never get back to those levels of volume for numerous reasons and they are not just all related to poker. You have only had to read the financial results of gaming firms published in most of the poker mags found in poker rooms since 2010-11 to read constantly 'ladbrokes poker revenue down 12% yoy, betfair poker revenue down 17% yoy' etc etc.  The same applies for virtually every major poker site outside of the poker only skins of stars and tilt who are privately owned firms and don't publish their results.  The bottom line is the vast majority of these gaming firms honestly couldn't care less about poker revenue and spend virtually nothing recruiting specifically poker customers. its such a tiny % of the total income that if they could get rid of it totally without losing any of their customers in other areas then i am pretty certain they would.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's a loss leader for the vast majority of online gaming sites after all overheads/staff costs compared to the boom days when it was a big % of total revenue.

I am talking euro only sites here as well as i have never played on stars/tilt so the impact of the loss of american's doesn't make any difference as they were never there in the first place on the listed PLC gaming firms listed above since the 2005 USA legal issues.  You literally couldn't play the size of games i played (stt's) and volume of those games in 2013-4 because they simply don't exist to even play nowadays and if they did you would literally have virtually all winning reg's playing them against each other.  

Would be interesting to hear Dan Morgan's views on these volumes.  I bet he couldn't play heads up stt's in the size and/or volume he used to back in 2009?  I have no idea if he still plays them and how much he rakes a month now compared to in 2009 for example.

Maybe ladbrokes etc etc dont promote it as they know they cant compete with sites such as stars? they cant possibly offer the bonuses and chance to win so much for so little as these sites, so whats the point? Plus these sites are gambling sites, with poker as a feature of. Stars, FTP etc are primarily poker sites.
Dont see how you can use your examples, who barely deal in poker to use as evidence that online poker is on the decline.

I assume from your answer you were not playing poker online seriously before 2008.  They barely deal in poker in 2014 but 8/10 years ago poker was a much bigger part of their overall business.  The reason they don't invest in poker now is because relative to the 'boom' period online poker is dead.  Obviously stars and tilt are still operating but i would be amazed if stars volume is bigger than 7/8 years ago.

8/10 years ago ladbrokes had a stand alone site which was pretty big with just their players on it.  Betfair the same.  Neither of these exist anymore.  Crypto the same where hills and numerous other skins were located.  Now pretty much all of these firms operate purely on ipoker which is much smaller in volume than all of these sites were individually back in 2006/7. 

[theprawnidentity]

I don't see how having threads on poker sites pages and pages long about how "shit" the state of online poker is, is helping.  Who cares that pokers on the decline, everything is on the decline (or at least was).  When things recover, those who haven't played probably wont come back cause they are expecting to get robbed / bumhunted / chatbox abused by regs who already know everything about them.

[rfgqqabc]

I don't see how having threads on poker sites pages and pages long about how "shit" the state of online poker is, is helping.  Who cares that pokers on the decline, everything is on the decline (or at least was).  When things recover, those who haven't played probably wont come back cause they are expecting to get robbed / bumhunted / chatbox abused by regs who already know everything about them.

You left out the almighty hud.

[theprawnidentity]

Apologies, the robbed part was alluding to HUD-Gate.

[DMorgan]

Would be interesting to hear Dan Morgan's views on these volumes.  I bet he couldn't play heads up stt's in the size and/or volume he used to back in 2009?  I have no idea if he still plays them and how much he rakes a month now compared to in 2009 for example.

There hasn't been any decline in action between 2009 when I played exclusively on ipoker and now playing on stars. I just moved to where the jobs were.

[Longy]

 but i would be amazed if stars volume is bigger than 7/8 years ago.

Stars volume is almost certainly bigger than it was in 06-07. They have nearly quadrupled their market share in that time http://www.pokerscout.com/news/weekly-traffic-update.aspx?year=2013&week=28

And the overall cash player number of the whole market is slightly bigger than then as well http://www.pokerhistory.eu/poker-statistics

I mean online poker since black friday has taken a battering and there a lot of reasons to be concerned but there is lot of overestimating how big poker was in the glory days. We have seen a massive consolidation of the market, as people have migrated to the company with easily the best rep in the industry.

[arbboy]

Would be interesting to hear Dan Morgan's views on these volumes.  I bet he couldn't play heads up stt's in the size and/or volume he used to back in 2009?  I have no idea if he still plays them and how much he rakes a month now compared to in 2009 for example.

There hasn't been any decline in action between 2009 when I played exclusively on ipoker and now playing on stars. I just moved to where the jobs were.

Ok fair enough.  One other question are your roi's the same as 2009 at the same buy in levels?

[arbboy]

 but i would be amazed if stars volume is bigger than 7/8 years ago.

Stars volume is almost certainly bigger than it was in 06-07. They have nearly quadrupled their market share in that time http://www.pokerscout.com/news/weekly-traffic-update.aspx?year=2013&week=28

And the overall cash player number of the whole market is slightly bigger than then as well http://www.pokerhistory.eu/poker-statistics

I mean online poker since black friday has taken a battering and there a lot of reasons to be concerned but there is lot of overestimating how big poker was in the glory days. We have seen a massive consolidation of the market, as people have migrated to the company with easily the best rep in the industry.

interesting stats thank you.

[Karabiner]

Countries like France, Spain, and Italy etc. segregating their players has also had a big negative effect coming directly after the US players absence.

Laddies stand-alone site and Betty's on Crypto were tremendous in their day.