To bluff or not to bluff here? 530 o8

[rfgqqabc]

PokerStars Hand #113176950673: Tournament #873443733, $500+$30 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2014/03/12 21:42:48 WET [2014/03/12 17:42:48 ET]
Table '873443733 5' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Elia001 (5185 in chips)
Seat 2: Demonic16 (5612 in chips)
Seat 3: trelskig (7313 in chips)
Seat 4: Imalucsac (3840 in chips)
Seat 6: Zident (3927 in chips) is sitting out
trelskig: posts small blind 25
Imalucsac: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Demonic16 [ Ah]
Zident: folds
Elia001: folds
Demonic16: raises 75 to 125
trelskig: folds
Imalucsac: calls 75
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Imalucsac: checks
Demonic16: bets 225
Imalucsac: calls 225
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Imalucsac: checks
Demonic16: bets 500
Zident has returned
Imalucsac: calls 500
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Imalucsac: checks
Demonic16:

Do we bluff here? Correct size if so? The turn bet feels pretty poor if we dont follow up on the river but in general he isn't one of lifes great folders and he might even have a straight flush. I felt like bet/bet/bet gets all none flushes to fold, as it should but having played with this guy before I think he'll view me as sort of nitty/not capable of firing off. Pot seems like the absolute nut low bet size and I would never ever bet that having sized up the turn as I did. Fwiw, I've been snug up to now and not really done much at all. I don't know if he recognises me but he certainly should, we played together at the weekend a few times and have played together in this comp a bit too.

[DMorgan]

I do a bluff, 1385

Between the hearts on the board being    and us having the  that actually cuts down a fair bit on the flush combos that he can have

[mulhuzz]

you definitely have a credible line for a bluff - question is only how often he thinks 'meh, could be a bare blocker - call you' since you probably also don't have that many flush combos either. also depends on whether he would expect you to check back a straight (even the 'nut' straight) and with what frequency.

I like 1200 or so as size.

[rfgqqabc]

you definitely have a credible line for a bluff - question is only how often he thinks 'meh, could be a bare blocker - call you' since you probably also don't have that many flush combos either. also depends on whether he would expect you to check back a straight (even the 'nut' straight) and with what frequency.

I like 1200 or so as size.

I like a thin bet so I might even bet 23hh here but probably not. I bet most flushes though. And he is more likely to have low cards so I'm not sure how much the 9tq being on the board cut down his flush combos. Tricky. I don't think I bet the nut straight in this particular spot. Some tournaments maybe but not this one. I want to pull the trigger but I've just not seen many people fold flushes (obv its hard to see them fold, lets say I've seen them call with weak flushes). I think we have to though.

[mulhuzz]

I like a thin bet so I might even bet 23hh here but probably not. I bet most flushes though. And he is more likely to have low cards so I'm not sure how much the 9tq being on the board cut down his flush combos. Tricky. I don't think I bet the nut straight in this particular spot. Some tournaments maybe but not this one. I want to pull the trigger but I've just not seen many people fold flushes (obv its hard to see them fold, lets say I've seen them call with weak flushes). I think we have to though.

think this is seems good news for us then. if we're never betting our straights then all his flushes (not that he has many) are the same as straights are the same as etc etc _ bluff catchers.

we have probably just enough combos of flushes to make a bluff profitable. fire away.

[SuuPRlim]

Is he good preflop? A lot of the tourney guys will call way too wide here preflop, if he does then I don't think we should bluff as he has a lot more combos of flushes than if he's played it well PF (if he's calling hands like J842 etc) also, he'll be we'll aware that as your raised unopened OTB that's one spot where if you do have the  (which hell assume you prolly do) it's much more likely to be bare than if you'd opened MP or EP. If he's good preflop then I think I'd go ahead and bluff, there is no doubt you rep the NF perfectly.

If you do bluff then betting big is the only play.

Remember you don't have to bluff every time you find yourself with the naked ace.

[rfgqqabc]

Is he good preflop? A lot of the tourney guys will call way too wide here preflop, if he does then I don't think we should bluff as he has a lot more combos of flushes than if he's played it well PF (if he's calling hands like J842 etc) also, he'll be we'll aware that as your raised unopened OTB that's one spot where if you do have the   (which hell assume you prolly do) it's much more likely to be bare than if you'd opened MP or EP. If he's good preflop then I think I'd go ahead and bluff, there is no doubt you rep the NF perfectly.

If you do bluff then betting big is the only play.

Remember you don't have to bluff every time you find yourself with the naked ace.

It is funny you post this for a reason that'll become apparent a little bit later in this post. I think the omaha 8 tournament regs call a touch too tight here. Obviously it depends on the player to some degree but the vast majority don't defend enough. I don't think J842 is a defend either. Thats a pretty bad hand. I'm not sure how wide he thinks I open the button, I'm not sure if he gives people much credit at all. Basically, I reversed this hand. I was in the big blind and peeled Kh7h2x3x (I certainly had the King Flush, I wasn't double suited) and the villain potted the river. This seemed absolutely awful. I was almost offended he had done it. He is basically saying, your terrible and scared money right? It seems like an obvious bluff compared to something like 1385? I damaged the mouse I was using at the time calling as quickly as I did but the more I thought about his hand the more unsure I became about the optimal bet size and whether bluffing was correct or not. It just has to be a spot where we should be bluffing almost every time right? Maybe he bet that because of my stack size, which is what he had in the hand above but it still seems bad. I think I like the bluff, we become pretty value heavy if we don't bluff this here. I mean we certainly don't have to but where is the fun in checking!

[SuuPRlim]

haha, well you say people defend too tight from here you will know a LOT better than me. You're loser than most PF here so I agree the bluff is prolly bad from him, Kh7h3x2x seems like a decent enough defend to me btw.

1385 is pretty much the pot right? I think that people bluff too much with NF blockers in general, it's like "Oh I have the Blocker, I should bluff" when there is often a chunk more to consider than that in most situations.

[rfgqqabc]

haha, well you say people defend too tight from here you will know a LOT better than me. You're loser than most PF here so I agree the bluff is prolly bad from him, Kh7h3x2x seems like a decent enough defend to me btw.

1385 is pretty much the pot right? I think that people bluff too much with NF blockers in general, it's like "Oh I have the Blocker, I should bluff" when there is often a chunk more to consider than that in most situations.

Pretty much pot and snap wagering the pot when it gets to you are pretty different though. 1385 would have made me think for about 5 seconds before I called, as I can't just fold but the insta pot just seemed really bad. The way people defend comes from their primary game, many of the o8 tourney regs defend far too tight, the nlhe regs who play this tend to be too loose/not 3betting enough and the o8 cash regs probably play the best theoretically imo. I think he should just check back the flop and see what happens here, he doesn't do fantastic vs my range but I'm rarely going to get him off it if I'm behind and he adds a bit of balance. On low cards he can just fold or bet out himself in a much higher equity situation. When he bets 2 streets and I call I'm very rarely folding the river, especially on the . I think one and done has some value too but with this specific hand he should be relatively happy to see a turn and go from there. Having said all that he does have one of the best bluffing hands with a pair/NF blocker and a gutter on the turn. Enough outs to check back sometimes on the river and be good when he improves. I think long term he shouldn't really worry about balance as we don't play enough so overall I guess the play would be to give up from the flop.

[cambridgealex]

Adam. I just wanted to say that I really think you have emerged from the shadows over the last few years. Probably one of the most improved players I know.

For balance, you do have a ridiculous haircut though.

[pleno1]

Would you limp qjo from mp now in the sunday milli Adam?

[rfgqqabc]

Would you limp qjo from mp now in the sunday milli Adam?

I mean never say never but I still don't think that limp was the greatest. 1birrion x better than your 94o peel though  but you might be right about everyone doing it in 2016. I have my doubts though.

Cheers I guess Al, not sure if you meant the subtle undertones of you were shit before or not though.

I'm not starting a Thigh style diary, just thought it was a cool spot.

[cambridgealex]

It was more sincere than it sounded

[pleno1]

congrats on your diary.

mods- can we rename to "emerged from the shadows" please, thanks!

[rfgqqabc]

congrats on your diary.

mods- can we rename to "emerged from the shadows" please, thanks!