Limp-calling in the sunday mill

[wazz]

My image should be fairly straightforward, shown down a bunch of good hands, can't say much about villains' image as I've been on 10+ tables, haven't seen him get out of line

PokerStars Hand #117571066269: Tournament #920731410, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2014/06/15 21:25:03 WET [2014/06/15 16:25:03 ET]
Table '920731410 110' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Lupario (5135 in chips)
Seat 2: wazzbot (23610 in chips)
Seat 3: kay82_ps (12634 in chips)
Seat 4: Die Ventura (19399 in chips)
Seat 5: JBzzzr (15615 in chips)
Seat 6: hemann1 (8881 in chips)
Seat 7: Magardan (7795 in chips)
Seat 8: Zgaga (2955 in chips)
Seat 9: TrEvgEndA (22239 in chips)
Lupario: posts the ante 25
wazzbot: posts the ante 25
kay82_ps: posts the ante 25
Die Ventura: posts the ante 25
JBzzzr: posts the ante 25
hemann1: posts the ante 25
Magardan: posts the ante 25
Zgaga: posts the ante 25
TrEvgEndA: posts the ante 25
Magardan: posts small blind 125
Zgaga: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wazzbot [ ]
TrEvgEndA: folds
Lupario: folds
wazzbot: calls 250
kay82_ps: folds
Die Ventura: raises 535 to 785
JBzzzr: folds
hemann1: folds
Magardan: folds
Zgaga: folds
wazzbot: calls 535
*** FLOP *** [ ]
wazzbot: checks
Die Ventura: bets 868
wazzbot: calls 868
*** TURN *** [ ] []
wazzbot: checks
Die Ventura: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
wazzbot: checks

[rfgqqabc]

Like all so far, dont see myself folding river but pretty brutal one.

I think raising in the mil might be better when your chipped up, prefer it more off 35bb or so. Plus sometimes you get to gamble with the shortie in the bb and thats fun.

[pleno1]

why is river brutal? hes going to barrel hearts and 9t v often

[rfgqqabc]

why is river brutal? hes going to barrel hearts and 9t v often

Hes not going to bluff it that much then right? So we're just closing our eyes and calling. Completely know what you mean tho, maybe it is a good river then.

[SuuPRlim]

the old limping debate rages on

So I see alll the merits of having a limp/call range in all sorts of scenarios, and have myself experimented with them in every format (PLO, NL tournaments etc) and whereas the merits ARE there, I have yet to find myself or see a limping strategy (besides super exploitative ones obviously) that is better than just opening the correct range in each spot and then widening it up to include some of the better limp, but weaker opening hands when you deem nessercary.

All we ever seem to achieve is we put some (albeit fairly small) money in with weak hands (often OOP) abd then put Less money in with stronger hands.

Like for me, in the Sunday Million I'd want to be putting more than 1bb in pre-flop with

I do believe there are some good limping strategies out there, but have yet to see one, or think of one myself, I actuallly think a great deal of the time it's just another FPS variant.

[rfgqqabc]

Sunday Mil is a weaker tournament for it too imo. I agree with all of Daves thoughts for the most part, Pads and I have been to war a few times about a limp he did with QJ ages ago that even now when I try to remember the hand seems bad but he has managed to convince me it was good before. I think blind vs blind it is definitely something that you need as part of your range and I'm sure the top hyper guys do it.

[Flash92]

I think I would prefer to just open this here too.

I very very rarely open limp (other than is some SB spots).

[pleno1]

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

[youthnkzR]

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

Where did u get those numbers from? Saying some people will do something 100% of the time is wrong without infinite sample. However if its right - and we know they 3bet us this much with this junk then we can exploit the fk out of it by 4bing tons / peeling pre vs aggro opponents and going mad when we flop decent equity (which isn't a made hand) / stationing down when we flop a pair.

Would be interested to chat on Skype about the spots where doing anything but limping is bad, drop me a message 2moro if u fancy it.

[TL900]

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

[youthnkzR]

On the hand above would fold river to a bet vs this guy - hard for him to be bluffing.

Really don't like limping a hand this strong in the milly just under 100bbs deep. People give it away in the milly, u flop a lot of dominating top pairs / better draws...etc.

[youthnkzR]

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

Maybe Pads is just a whale on a heater!

[titaniumbean]

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

Maybe Pads is just picken on a heater!

fyp

[SuuPRlim]

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

Maybe Pads picken is just a whale on a heater!

[SuuPRlim]

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

I can defo buy all of this, affective limp strategies exist for sure. They are just almost always either fundamentally incorrect or poorly applied.

Pads without giving too many secrets away did you ever get anything like this working for 6max play?