Short Handed PLO - Played a ropey hand, where now?

[SuuPRlim]

So, I make a bit of an error pre-flop here (which i think quite a lot of people will make a bit of the time) then got into a muddle post-flop, even though it's VERY clear that opening pre-flop in this game is a mistake, how would people play the flop onwards?

The BTN in this hand (the 3bettor) is a VERY good reg from Norway, me and him have a lot of history, but defo show each other a decent amount of respect - but have defo gone a lil crackers vs each other in short handed games before. One of best players on iPoker and on a big upswing atm.

SB is another good player, we've played a lot of HU he's prolly had the better of me in those games and they haven;t been notably aggro or tight, and the BB is a another decent player, tends to be quite "front end aggro" reasonably aggro pre-flop and flop and notably less so down the streets.

Given that its a tough 4 handed line-up and we're OOP to the best of the three with 180bb stacks we should defo fold PF, also, had MissCorrado folded the B B I would have, and we defo should be, folding to the 3bet (hence why we dont open lol) anyways I was with a bit of momentum and feeling my oats so I've opened, been obligated to call closing the action threeway what do we do from here....

GAME #5803769869: Omaha  PL €5/€10 2014-06-22 20:29:47/GMT
Table Adendron
Seat 1: 4Cards3Btns (€1,869.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: HughMongus (€528.00 in chips)
Seat 6: MissCorrado (€1,843.96 in chips)
Seat 10: Lil Dave (€2,559.00 in chips)
HughMongus: Post SB €5.00
MissCorrado: Post BB €10.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Lil Dave [       ]
Lil Dave: Raise (NF) €30.00
4Cards3Btns: Raise (NF) €105.00
HughMongus: Fold
MissCorrado: Call €95.00
Lil Dave: Call €75.00
*** FLOP *** [     ]
MissCorrado: Check
Lil Dave: Check
4Cards3Btns: Bet €210.00
MissCorrado: Call €210.00
Lil Dave:


I did consider leading this flop, would like to discuss the merits/pitfalls of doing that also

[mulhuzz]

Are we deliberately short handed? Or is game breaking and re level wars may be a factor?

I don't feel like I want to donk here bc we have at least some decent turns. There may be some hands we want to donk/fold but this may be too strong to fold - maybe one bd would be best hand I'd bf. Quite what else to do I don't know. Can we just cownsider folding and not compounding mistake.

That said,if we overcall,his often do we freeze Norway?

Actually sinve not in love with making any two pair with small cards maybe this could be a donk.

[SuuPRlim]

Are we deliberately short handed? Or is game breaking and re level wars may be a factor?

game short handed froma 6m gane, not expecting it to break.

Can we just cownsider folding and not compounding mistake.

I think considering it is very shrewd, I don't know though is the honest truth, I feel we might have gotten ourselves into a "too strong to fold, to weak to raise" spot

That said,if we overcall,his often do we freeze Norway?

I really don;t know. He's very good, on a big heater and not scared to pile it on, I'd imagine though he won't continue with very weak equity, but I reckon he might think the turn, when checked to given stack leverage is a good spot to barrell again...

I considered RAISE/FOLDING the flop (after checking) and just sort of hoping that works (lol) with a hand that can stand a call ok. I considered folding, as you said, and I considered the (very reasonable I believe) option of calling and seeing what the turn card is...

One worrying thing though about this spot is that MissCorrado overcall range from the BB has a lot of 789T QJT8 hands etc which do not make for a good opponent to our hand...

[GreekStein]

Fold now ainec IMO.

Don't let our backdoors compound the pre flop mistake here .

For me the only reason to continue here is if the 3bettor was a fish that's never folding aces

[dreenie]

fold, even if u turn the perfect draw card it's not to the nut f/s. also turning 2 pair I would imagine get u into a world of trouble.  much better spots to get it in. 

[mulhuzz]

How much of an edge do we have in this game Dave?

I mean, if it's a tough line up (seems so...) with no real marks I might be more prepared to do something mental like c/r-fold or c-r go bananas on certain turns. Gotta be good for image/meta (ok trying not to overstate importance ofc) as is certainly more fun than folding.

Don't want to advocate setting 100bb on fire but c-r/f or go bananas on certain turns (pretty much only when we go HU) might be worthy of consideration.

Re Norway not barrelling weak equity, I think he's likely to do exactly this and maybe decide not to barrel his mediumish equity stuff. When we got no actual equity we gotta get them barrels out right?

I think it's very clear that the thing that 95% of the time is just sigh fold and not open this hand again.

But now we've arrived I do want to give us a chance to win so question is only if donking or check-bananas gives more possibility.

Just thinking out loud, but suspect it might be check bananas - squeeze and freeze etc.

[mulhuzz]

Btw about 90000% more likely cr banana if we have a bdsd a well. Shame we don't

[wazz]

I would lead flop here expecting not to get raised wide - sets of and are unlikely and we block , and only hands like nutty wraps + pairs will raise, and perhaps OP+oesd+bdfds, and even then a lot of them will probably flat.

I would then be barrelling any 2/3/4/6/J/Q/K of clubs or hearts, I think, depending on who calls and how quick.

[Oxford_HRV]

I would lead flop here expecting not to get raised wide - sets of and are unlikely and we block , and only hands like nutty wraps + pairs will raise, and perhaps OP+oesd+bdfds, and even then a lot of them will probably flat.

I would then be barrelling any 2/3/4/6/J/Q/K of clubs or hearts, I think, depending on who calls and how quick.

flop sizing? i bet flop $155. has to be a b/f personally dont think i'd like having to bet alot of turns, clubs hearts and we have no cheeky gutshots either. id standardly stab flop and try make showdown.

c/r is sweet aswell to $500 id feel more confident betting bottom wrap cards OTT and obvs anything that improves our hand. as mulhuzz says c/r bananas is certainly more fun than folding lol

[wazz]

€190 i think?

[SuuPRlim]

Good post Wazz, I think I might be pretty wary of barrelling K's though OTT and would prolly do so on a 5' as well (and maybe an 8 too (obv neither if MissCorrado Overcalls)

yeh i think 175 - 200 would be fine, I like leading TTT here, so feels fine from a strategic angle too

I mean, if it's a tough line up (seems so...) with no real marks I might be more prepared to do something mental like c/r-fold or c-r go bananas on certain turns. Gotta be good for image/meta (ok trying not to overstate importance ofc) as is certainly more fun than folding.

Don't want to advocate setting 100bb on fire but c-r/f or go bananas on certain turns (pretty much only when we go HU) might be worthy of consideration.

I think if it were HU, then call and c/jam some turns would be really fun ( ) and stack leverage will be perfect, obviously have to be quite careful what cards to choose, as most cards that are good for our range he mght consider checking back, but he'll certainly be b/f a fair few better hands than our TEN. 3way with MissCorrado's PF range this is really fucking risky, too much so i think

Re Norway not barrelling weak equity, I think he's likely to do exactly this and maybe decide not to barrel his mediumish equity stuff. When we got no actual equity we gotta get them barrels out right?

Yeah, 100% agree, however I think the strength of the BB range on a lot of turn cards will HAVE to shut him down, speshly if Im in the pot too and he must give me credit for knowing the BB has a LOT of hands that hit this board and a lot of turns really well.

How much of an edge do we have in this game Dave?

I always have an edge

*serious answer* I have a "never quit games" (unless i'v got loads of games obv) policy, if you can keep 3/6 - 10/20 games running even in tough lineups then they almost always fill back up again and some good games can come as a result, and actually this time I had a really good seat as new players would all come in on my right. Most recreational players won't feel comfortable starting 6m games, and won't be massively keen on waiting for 15 minutes on a waiting list... best thing for the games is to run 3/4 handed games, but most regs are such slugs they just snap leave when games get tough and race back in as soon as they start to fill...

[SuuPRlim]

I did fold this hand.

Agree with Cos, not to compound my pre-flop error by getting involved light up against decent ranges postflop.

[mulhuzz]

In hindsight I like the fold almost as much as you're 'never quit, come at me heros' policy.