Cash game- wtf now?

[Tal]

i'm a massive proponent of rule 1 but this isn't the spot to enforce it.


where do you draw the line? it just opens up all the options in the world for angle shooting.

I don't need to draw any lines anywhere.

I explained the reasons for my view, including what I was relying on to reach my conclusion. I even ended by highlighting that, if there's more to it, it becomes less clear cut.

If a drunk bloke was, in my view, only doing the "I raise...no, only kidding!" thing as a joke and had clearly no intention to be doing anything as sophisticated as an angle shoot, I believe the best course of action is not to bind him to something he at no stage intended to do.

This doesn't sound like Ivan Freitez, tbh.

[Doobs]

Usual answer to this:

Did he say it as an angle shoot or just a very poorly judged drunk joke? If the latter, why enforce the rule that's there to prevent the former?

He's an idiot but he didn't mean at any point to raise.

Best course of action is to give him some encouragement to leave the game, give him his money - in full - and put a note on the system that, the next time he comes in (in a more sober state), to have a word about what happened. It would be, for example, a good idea to buy the other player a drink at the next opportunity, etc.

Forcing £600 out of his wallet is completely the wrong thing to do IMO.

That said, if he's done it before, if he's been warned about it that night or if there's some doubt about his motives, it's less black and white.

this is horribly wrong it's not like it's some small preflop thing or etiquette thing where it's prudent to give a fair chance/warning to a new player, if he makes a bad call shall we give him that back too if he regrets it?


rules are rules and he's clearly trying to now angle shoot to get out of paying what he owes.

he will likely just take the ban and the casino will rofl and never pay money out to the player owed. we all know full well at a roulette table they'd have to pay up if they missed and if their number came in the casino will explain that they kindly let them remove their bet now gtfo the casino.


ppl in this thread misapplying rule 1 imo

Clearly trying to angle shoot?  You in his head, or just guessing with the rest of us. Drunk recs are far more likely to angle shoot than the regs who have been there years?  Think it is very difficult as I said, and I'd really like to have been there to witness the timing etc.   Also the history is very important if one of the fellas in the hand has made a few crafty moves before, I would be far more likely to swag against them.  

I used to be very much rules are rules, but have mellowed as I have played the game more.  I think it can't be black/white here.

[titaniumbean]

the dealer should be the one to make the decision obv as they have the most info.


as i've said, i'm always a massive proponent for rule 1, if it's not obvious enough for the dealer to pipe up then 100% he owes the pot.

[kinboshi]

Fold pre.

[DungBeetle]

This is a really hard one.  As others have mentioned it's all about how it was said so very hard for the floor to make a ruling.

If it's "I raise"..........pause................"only kidding" then that would be binding to me. 

But if it's a clear joke all spoken at the same time then I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

[OverTheBorder]

Reminds me of that rio cash hand where the guy exposed accidentally 7 high or something and joked all in and they made it stand. That sounds 100% more innocent than this and he lost thousands from memory.

[Sunday8pm]

If it was really clearly a joke and he said it whilst mucking then I think its bad form of player1 to kick up a fuss about it.

Yeh kinda agree with this. If guy is too pissed and just trying to enjoy himself  then it kinda deflects away from the purpose of playing poker - ' to have fun'. Sounds like he is too much of a degenerates to angle to his advantage. Maybe a warning would suffice.

[George2Loose]

When he said Raise it sounded genuine- probably a ten second gap before he said only kidding and tried to fold

[Sunday8pm]

When he said Raise it sounded genuine- probably a ten second gap before he said only kidding and tried to fold

Just depends on how smashed he was then. Cos he can just go into a daydream for 10 seconds.

[DungBeetle]

When he said Raise it sounded genuine- probably a ten second gap before he said only kidding and tried to fold

If that is the case it should definitely stand then in my opinion.  People often bluff river and then instamuck when opponent says raise before hearing the amount so this seems an obvious attempt to angleshoot.

[SuuPRlim]

very very straightforward imo.

The drunk guy (providing no previous for angly behaviour and he was just drunkenly donking about) gets to fold, without putting any money in and told that if he does it again he will prolly be forced to raise.

forcing him to pay £1200 is totally wrong.

If he's got previous for angle-shooting then make him raise.

[nirvana]

very very straightforward imo.

The drunk guy (providing no previous for angly behaviour and he was just drunkenly donking about) gets to fold, without putting any money in and told that if he does it again he will prolly be forced to raise.

forcing him to pay £1200 is totally wrong.

If he's got previous for angle-shooting then make him raise.

It's not really straightforward though I reckon. Very hard to make sets of rules to suit different interpretations of behaviours or motivations. Rules don't have to be abso black and white.

But they probably need to be based on actions rather than guesswork about motivations etc. unless we have a judge, jury and appropriate length trial every time someone needs to exercise a judgment about what's fair or not.

[muckthenuts]

very very straightforward imo.

The drunk guy (providing no previous for angly behaviour and he was just drunkenly donking about) gets to fold, without putting any money in and told that if he does it again he will prolly be forced to raise.

forcing him to pay £1200 is totally wrong.

If he's got previous for angle-shooting then make him raise.

The fellow punter could ensure this happened if they wanted to, but otherwise the casino kinda has to follow the guidelines as best as they can.

[titaniumbean]

sounds like I should play drunk more if you can just take back bets whenever you want under the label of bants.

edit does the same thinking apply if the guy hadn't been drinking?

[bobAlike]

I get the thought behind making him pay up but if he's a newbie/inexperienced then surely you want him to come back again? As the old saying goes 'You can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin it once'.

If you make him pay up now will he come back?

If he is a seasoned angle grinder then off with his head.