Road to being a pro

[KingPush]

Took Dave's advice sat shallow in 1/2. Won a lot without sd and then won one big one with aa on 226a. I raised, nearly everyone called. I cbet called in 2 positions. Start thinking about checking one street but turn a changes my mind I bet guy shoves for ~120 I snap he has a 2 and I fade the one out. Phew.

Lost 2 big hands afterwards. First was limp utg, pro(?) raises to 7 from btn. I 3bet to 20 with at from sb, I don't have a calling range here so this is def a 3bet, btn calls. 876r I cbet he calls. 2 no flush draw, I bet again he calls. turns an under card again and I check fold. Think this is fine.

Next hand was played 4 handed I open co with kj to 6 btn calls SB 3bets to 27 ish and I 4bet to 50 with kj. Think this is a big mistake. Heads up it's good but with the caller as well I think this is a fold unless he's way ool. Live though it's shit. Think something like kjs, kqs, AQ, ak and jj+ should be my range here. Maybe not even that wide.

70 up anyway and will definitely be sitting short in 1/2 again. Line ups seem better than .5/1 and also a lot more fun even when people are losing chunks more.

[NEWY]

why do u have no callin range?

[KingPush]

Don't have one from any positions apart from btn and bb as unless it is balanced it is easily exploited. Also with a limper calling here is burning money as have nut worst position.

Gonna do some HHS then play mtts later. Any suggestions on which ones to play? Have money on ipoker stars and 888.

[Honeybadger]

Don't have one from any positions apart from btn and bb as unless it is balanced it is easily exploited. Also with a limper calling here is burning money as have nut worst position.

Not having a flatting range apart from BTN and BB is really, really, really bad. There is some justification for not having a flatting range from the SB vs LP opens in non-MW pots, but even this is sub-optimal. However, not having a flatting range in other positions is terrible. Playing 3bet or fold means you are turning down a TON of +EV spots where you can make money by flatting.

Besides, I would not worry about having exploitable ranges in a small stakes live game! Seriously, don't even consider it until you have evidence that one particular player is actually exploiting you! Which is unlikely to ever happen in the games you are playing tbh, and even when it does happen it only matters in pots that are HU between you and him. He can't do much to exploit you in multiway pots since such pots are 'protected'. Keep in mind that I am giving you this advice even though I am pretty much the most theory/GTO-based regular poster on this forum.

Having a dogmatic approach such as "I never open limp" or "I don't have a flatting range from the SB" or "I always open raise to 2.5x on the button, 3x in the CO etc" will hinder your development as a poker player as well as reducing your EV in most live games you play in.

But if I did have a dogmatic rule in this particular spot (which I don't) it would actually be to have NO 3betting range, and to flat ALL my playable hands. Justification for this would be to keep the limper in the pot (assuming he is a weaker player) rather than forcing him out.

BTW, you can make a virtue of your bad relative position by sometimes leading through the limp-caller.

[KingPush]

Really? Think it's fairly standard to only 3bet/fold in all positions apart from bb and btn in online cash games now at least as default.

Would think the only flatting here is just an exploitation of the utg not having a balanced limping range, when this is un knowable, especially as people love sandbagging. Also the fact we can lead does not mean we have good position as if we get called we're still oop.

[SuuPRlim]

Would have to echo Stu's post, Live poker (if your in ok-good games) is mostly about maximizing vacuum profit, i.e. what ACTUAL hand you have vs the range/hand you think he has. If you think he'll fold better hands then BLUFF, if you think he'll call worse then VALUE-BET if your not sure then prolly lean on the side of caution and do whatever is safest.

Worrying that you can't flat AT in X spot cos you don't have a flatting range isn't going to do you any favors in a live game - having said all this your approaching the game from a theory driven angle is very much how it needs to be these days.

[Honeybadger]

Really? Think it's fairly standard to only 3bet/fold in all positions apart from bb and btn in online cash games now at least as default.

Would think the only flatting here is just an exploitation of the utg not having a balanced limping range, when this is un knowable, especially as people love sandbagging. Also the fact we can lead does not mean we have good position as if we get called we're still oop.

Errr.... I assumed this was live poker you were talking about. The way you wrote the hands down seemed like it was a live game (otherwise why not just put in the HHs?)

That said, you should have flatting ranges in online poker too. What you doing with TT or AQs from the CO vs an UTG open? These hands play WAY better as a flat than as a 3bet. What if MP opens, CO and BTN both call and you have 55 in the SB... you really only 3bet or fold here? It is definitely not standard to be only 3bet or fold in online poker.

And in live poker you should definitely have flatting ranges.

For that matter in live games you will often have limping ranges depending on how the game is playing, and there will be periods in the game when you can open to 15x and still get action etc. It all depends on how the game is playing. Don't be dogmatic about anything.

I have told this story before but I remember a while back I was playing in a game that was going through insanity half hour. That period where, for the next few hand at least, certain players were simply never ever going to fold preflop. This is NOT the time to be having a standard 3x opening size or having a polarised 3betting range or stuff like that. But you gotta be focussed on the game flow to know what is going on. Anyway, someone opened to £10 in a deep-stacked £1/2 game, there were 5 callers and I 3bet with AA to £150 - a HUGE raise in normal cirumstances. And as the chips left my hand I realised I had made a terrible mistake - that I should have made it £300 and would still have got the same amount of action. Everyone called, obviously. But they'd have called £300 just as happily, so that's what I should have made it. Perhaps I should just have jammed for £1000 or whatever I had. Probably would have got at least a couple of callers. Being aware of stuff like this requires thinking non-dogmatically. Having 'standard' 3bet sizes or ranges does not win as much money in these sort of spots.

[Oxford_HRV]

Hi there!

Suuprlim and honeybadger have gave real good advice on game selection BR and theory, what I'd like to add to that is when you're playing dont feel frozen to one style of play. online NL5 zoom is a billion miles from live local casino NL100+
Try adapting to the games separately, don't have set rules about how you play, each scenario will be different, sometimes flatting will be best. also try not to consider being balanced or villains being balanced,V rarely the people you will play against will think deeply or correctly about how ranges change and how for example they should start limp raising a certain % of hands as bluffs.

Good luck on the full time grind, make sure you put in a ridic amount of volume and move up stakes asap on stars because those benefits are too good to miss!

[KingPush]

Would have to echo Stu's post, Live poker (if your in ok-good games) is mostly about maximizing vacuum profit, i.e. what ACTUAL hand you have vs the range/hand you think he has. If you think he'll fold better hands then BLUFF, if you think he'll call worse then VALUE-BET if your not sure then prolly lean on the side of caution and do whatever is safest.

Worrying that you can't flat AT in X spot cos you don't have a flatting range isn't going to do you any favors in a live game - having said all this your approaching the game from a theory driven angle is very much how it needs to be these days.

This may be the best thing to do but really struggle to think like this since I've been playing my range versus the middle of villains for a few months now. Also any attempts at hand reading have always lead to me levelling myself a lot.

Really? Think it's fairly standard to only 3bet/fold in all positions apart from bb and btn in online cash games now at least as default.

Would think the only flatting here is just an exploitation of the utg not having a balanced limping range, when this is un knowable, especially as people love sandbagging. Also the fact we can lead does not mean we have good position as if we get called we're still oop.

Errr.... I assumed this was live poker you were talking about. The way you wrote the hands down seemed like it was a live game (otherwise why not just put in the HHs?)

That said, you should have flatting ranges in online poker too. What you doing with TT or AQs from the CO vs an UTG open? These hands play WAY better as a flat than as a 3bet. What if MP opens, CO and BTN both call and you have 55 in the SB... you really only 3bet or fold here? It is definitely not standard to be only 3bet or fold in online poker.

And in live poker you should definitely have flatting ranges.

For that matter in live games you will often have limping ranges depending on how the game is playing, and there will be periods in the game when you can open to 15x and still get action etc. It all depends on how the game is playing. Don't be dogmatic about anything.

I have told this story before but I remember a while back I was playing in a game that was going through insanity half hour. That period where, for the next few hand at least, certain players were simply never ever going to fold preflop. This is NOT the time to be having a standard 3x opening size or having a polarised 3betting range or stuff like that. But you gotta be focussed on the game flow to know what is going on. Anyway, someone opened to £10 in a deep-stacked £1/2 game, there were 5 callers and I 3bet with AA to £150 - a HUGE raise in normal cirumstances. And as the chips left my hand I realised I had made a terrible mistake - that I should have made it £300 and would still have got the same amount of action. Everyone called, obviously. But they'd have called £300 just as happily, so that's what I should have made it. Perhaps I should just have jammed for £1000 or whatever I had. Probably would have got at least a couple of callers. Being aware of stuff like this requires thinking non-dogmatically. Having 'standard' 3bet sizes or ranges does not win as much money in these sort of spots.

Was in a live poker game and I'm happy to admit I'm still struggling to make correct adjustments for live poker. Every time I deviate from my standard strategy I end up in spots where I don't know my range and feel like I'm making a lot of -EV plays this may also be to do with me not feeling comfortable enough in my own strategy being optimal enough in the first place. Also I agree with you but these are all adjustments it is +EV to shove all in with aces but this does not mean it is the best play. Especially as it is terrible for your subsequent range. I agree though that when you're confident no-one is ever going to exploit you and for example is never going to fold then obviously we should just bet big with our good hands and not play anything else. From my experience though these spots rarely exist.

Hi there!

Suuprlim and honeybadger have gave real good advice on game selection BR and theory, what I'd like to add to that is when you're playing dont feel frozen to one style of play. online NL5 zoom is a billion miles from live local casino NL100+
Try adapting to the games separately, don't have set rules about how you play, each scenario will be different, sometimes flatting will be best. also try not to consider being balanced or villains being balanced,V rarely the people you will play against will think deeply or correctly about how ranges change and how for example they should start limp raising a certain % of hands as bluffs.

Good luck on the full time grind, make sure you put in a ridic amount of volume and move up stakes asap on stars because those benefits are too good to miss!

Hi, cheers for the support. Definitely agree with you and the more I play in these games the more I feel comfortable adjusting to each situation. For example I used to cbet flops too much in multi way pots and now I've realised I need to have much tighter ranges in theses spots as people are generally calling way wider than online.

[KingPush]

Played three tournies bricked em all. Dunno why I do it. This happened earlier though.

GAME #5931276417: Texas Hold'em  NL €0.02/€0.05 2014-08-22 18:57:39/GMT
Table Speed Hold'em 1
Seat 1: USERO1 (€4.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Morzhoviii (€5.07 in chips)
Seat 5: thetruegrinder18 (€2.12 in chips)
Seat 6: KingPush1 (€5.90 in chips)
Seat 8: baadnewzz01 (€5.24 in chips) DEALER
Seat 10: 201skeet (€5.00 in chips)
201skeet: Post SB €0.02
USERO1: Post BB €0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KingPush1 [ SA]
Morzhoviii: Fold
thetruegrinder18: Fold
KingPush1: Raise (NF) €0.15
baadnewzz01: Fold
201skeet: Fold
USERO1: Raise (NF) €0.50
KingPush1: Raise (NF) €0.90
USERO1: Call €0.40
*** FLOP *** [ ]
USERO1: Check
KingPush1: Check
*** TURN *** []
USERO1: Bet €0.91
KingPush1: Call €0.91
*** RIVER *** []
USERO1: Bet €2.54
KingPush1: Call €2.54
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €8.14 Rake €0.58
USERO1: Shows [H10 ] Four of a Kind, Tens
KingPush1: Shows [ SA] Four of a Kind, Aces
KingPush1: wins €8.14

poor bastard

[SuuPRlim]

nice hand.

LOVE your turn and river play

Basically I think of online and live poker games like this;

Online games, and over the past 18 months I've had to really overhaul the way I play online and hasn't been easy, is like working high up in a big company, you have plenty of room for creativity and flair but there is a certain set of "rules" that you really have to stick to in order to be successful, you're doing the same thing day in day out vs the same people and in general the people you're doing it against are fairly competent. You have your strategy and if you deviate too wildly from it then you will likely end up in a bit of trouble. There is just a certain way things mostly have to be done working for the big company, and your protected by those rules as well - if you have to bluffing X amount in a certain spot then you have to be bluffing, and so on, much safer...

Live cash games though, is like being the boss of a small business, your out there with complete creative control just trying to make it work. Because your doing everything spots always coming up that you dont have the answers for and you have to rely on your skills to make good decisions. Live cash games are deeper, generally speaking much looser and with often less experienced or more "gambley" players and you're going to find yourself all the time in situations where you think WTF is happening here. That's actually half the fun of live poker games imo. You need less theoretical poker knowledge and more raw skills, in a live game, all the information you can get you need to use, hows the guy acting, how he look, how's he been playing, is he tilted has he just won a big pot and calm, is he eating, is he getting a massage and more interested in chatting the waitress up than getting involved right now...

Its like poker "on the streets" as opposed to poker in the classroom, both are good fun and have there merits but you need to really understand the environment your in if your gonna be successful.

Or you could just make quads over quads...then it doesnt really matter

[KingPush]

nice hand.

LOVE your turn and river play

Basically I think of online and live poker games like this;

Online games, and over the past 18 months I've had to really overhaul the way I play online and hasn't been easy, is like working high up in a big company, you have plenty of room for creativity and flair but there is a certain set of "rules" that you really have to stick to in order to be successful, you're doing the same thing day in day out vs the same people and in general the people you're doing it against are fairly competent. You have your strategy and if you deviate too wildly from it then you will likely end up in a bit of trouble. There is just a certain way things mostly have to be done working for the big company, and your protected by those rules as well - if you have to bluffing X amount in a certain spot then you have to be bluffing, and so on, much safer...

Live cash games though, is like being the boss of a small business, your out there with complete creative control just trying to make it work. Because your doing everything spots always coming up that you dont have the answers for and you have to rely on your skills to make good decisions. Live cash games are deeper, generally speaking much looser and with often less experienced or more "gambley" players and you're going to find yourself all the time in situations where you think WTF is happening here. That's actually half the fun of live poker games imo. You need less theoretical poker knowledge and more raw skills, in a live game, all the information you can get you need to use, hows the guy acting, how he look, how's he been playing, is he tilted has he just won a big pot and calm, is he eating, is he getting a massage and more interested in chatting the waitress up than getting involved right now...

Its like poker "on the streets" as opposed to poker in the classroom, both are good fun and have there merits but you need to really understand the environment your in if your gonna be successful.

Or you could just make quads over quads...then it doesnt really matter

Haha cheers man. Think I might just try and do quads over quads consistently. In all serious though mate really appreciate the advice.

Swingy day played terrible at the start. Just button clicking and the button was never fold. Went through HHs and talked theory on the hand analysis and rehydrated and played much better second session. Taking a break now and then gwan casino later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSVDcw6iW8

[verndog158]

Good luck with the diary, intresting read, and some different views on things! Listen to all the advice and youll improve!
WHich casino is your local?

[KingPush]

170 down. Had v on 4 flush board for 30 odd. Couldn't hit a flop for a while and whittled down then the weird spot came up. 2, 4, 8 straddle. Utg limps  I'm in SB with 127 and shove. What's your range here? Cos I shoved 77s and I think that is fairly standard. First straddle snaps and utg tank calls qq and an and don't suck out with first the gutshot and then the diamond draw. With 15bbs though I think this spot is about as standard as it gets. Can't fold can't call and can't raise. Not saying it's a fist pump and its probably bottom of my range (without looking at+, kq, 66+) but yeah feels weird to lose that much.

[atdc21]

Hello kingpush.
Very interesting this diary, and some great advice in it , esp from suuprlim and honeybadger. I play live 50-1  or 1-1 cash games and suuprlims comparison to companys is spot on imo.
I'm light years away from being an expert but imo and from what ive seen in live games , i would think above hand would be an ideal one to have a flatting range, although there has been straddle to £8  you are still really shoving 127 bbs, as its a 1-1 game imo, or am i completely wrong? what can call you thats not better, or you are in aflip with?  maybe im a nit lol, hopefully get some answers from honeybadger and suuprlim.
good luck and keep posting