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Author Topic: poker math for live players  (Read 2869 times)
Juuice
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« on: September 01, 2014, 09:44:46 PM »

Hey everyone, I play primarily live cash games and would like to better my 'on the fly' math to take my game to the next level and allow me to compete at higher stakes!

I've always had some difficultly with the maths of poker and never while browsing online forums or search engines found an easily applicable way to do what seems like quite complex math so always just put it off and am really trying to knuckle down and finally learn it!

Here are my questions (sorry if some seem obvious/dumb)

1) How do you write/do/workout your range for your perception of optimal in-game (i.e. You think Player X limps a range consisting of XYZ, and the opener behind him has a range of XYZ) how do we use that information to build our continuing range? (both calling & raising)

Like, if during a live game I see a player limping alot, and a reg isolating him alot, and I use the poker cruncher app to find out; through my perception, what % of hands they're playing, how do I now find out the optimal % for me to play??
An Example:
EP1 limps what we perceive to be a 25.5% and a reg 2 to his left is isolating him with a 17.6% range, how do I use this information to construct my range? what % can I now call? what % can I now 3bet? and how do I work it out?

2) How do you work out quickly in-game how your equity changes street by street in your head?

Example: Hero (100bb) raises btn to 3bb with 
              BB (100bb) Calls
Flop:  two spades
Assume we peceive his PF calling range to be TT-22, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q8s+, J8s+,T8s+, 97s+, 68s+, 75s+, 64s+, 45s+, AJo-A2o, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 89o, 78o, 67o, 56o

how do we work out in out heads while playing how often his range has hit the flop and what our equity against that range is, and how do we do it again on the turn.
Also how do we work out exactly how much fold equity we have?

3) Once we know 1 & 2, how do we now work out exactly how often we need to be folding/raising/calling/bluffing etc??

Sorry if questions dont make loads of sense, Im not the best at explaining myself, especially with stuff im not too confident on! I have more questions, but the more i thought about these ones the more scared I got about how much I have to learn and how little I know!
Briefly thought of just cba'ing it all and not doing this post but that lazy attitude is driving me crazy!! Once I start learning the above things Ill expand on to other areas I not too confident in!

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Juuice
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 09:41:58 PM »

bump?
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Juuice
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2014, 11:48:06 PM »

any reason why 130+ reads and nobody helping?
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Honeybadger
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 12:45:56 AM »

We are all feel players yo.
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theprawnidentity
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 07:30:48 AM »

This isn't really something that you can learn to do accurately in your head, at least, I know I can't.  It's just something that you have to learn over time.  If you keep working these spots out with a computer eventually you start to get an idea of what the results will be.  There's no simple way of doing it, just have to keep practising and you'll find yourself getting nearer and nearer the right answer without the software.
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MC
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 07:40:22 AM »

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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal"
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 08:54:59 PM »



 cupcake
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baldock92
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 01:44:06 AM »



^ This
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Sulphur man
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 08:35:22 PM »

Deucescracked has some excellent math videos so you could go down that road.
The op is not that specific and convoluted. Good luck working on Theory.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2014, 12:17:11 PM »

hi Juuuice 

I've played a lot of live cash games, a LOT!

Now, in my experience of poker play, both live and online, the kind of calculations you're talking about are impossible - idk maybe WCG and Sauce can do it, who knows, but I know I can't, and I know some amazing and very successful poker players and i'd be pretty happy to wager a big amount they can't either!!

Live poker, it really is a feel game, you can do all sorts of range analysis (with very incomplete data - and this stuff is complex enough on a computer!!) you like, but really having a perceived range for someone is kinda pointless...

Is he winning?
Is he losing?
Is he tilting?
Is he eating?
Is he messing around on his phone?
Has he just won/lost a big pot?
Is he tired?
Does he have momentum/really "feeling it"?
Is he just relaxing chatting a waitress up?

All this stuff, combined with a natural ability to judge body language and a change in dynamic is really askill that will fare much better than any of this type of work.

So really really wouldn't worry about it Smiley and this isn't to patronise live poker games or players, if you had access to the type of information in an online poker game that you do in a live poker game then there would be no need for any of the words like "range" to even exist.
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