UK General Election 2015

[The Baron]

SNP got 1.48m votes and 56 MPs

UKIP 3.77m and 1 MP

Under a second preference type of PR, that would have translated to about 85 UKIP MPs

whilst i expect electoral reform to be a big issue, its not as big an issue as the union imo

with con in majority there is no realistic prospect of FPTP changing

 but there is a realistic prospect of fiscal autonomy for scotland, home rule etc

it has also to said that ukip was anti-change in the 2011 referendum and is now pro-change now that it suits them

Where did those 84 seats go? Oh that's right the Conservative party who are nearly 100 seats better off with FPTP.

It won't change in my lifetime.

[neeko]

May as well keep learning while this thread is going...

Anyone (mulhuzz?) care to give 5 bullet points why exiting the EU would be bad?

I cant get my head round it..

Exchange rate not effected as we aren't on the Euro
Immigration tightened as we can require visa's etc different for each country
Trade relations, as long as their are no strange duties introduced then everything will just continue as is

What am I missing?

If not a part of the EU then we would need to be part of EFTA (European free trade association) only you have to pay to be a member - Norway and Switzerland do this. It would cost the UK about 2bn a year - taxation without representation.

[Kmac84]

The real questions now are who steps up and leads the Libs and Labour?

Should Jim Murphy fall on his sword as leader of Scottish Labour?  Pretty sure their constitution says he has to go.  

I have hit a brick wall though, so tired, need some sleep before I can start trying to read up on the bigger issues surrounding the outcome.  

[arbboy]

The real question now is can a traditional left wing labour party be anything other than a fringe party in modern day Britain?  Britain has voted convincingly over the past 40 years that they don't want a traditional left wing government.  Unless the labour party effectively become centre based (hence not a labour party imo and one trying to kid the country they are a labour party ala Blair) they pretty much don't understand that they can't win elections as all the key swing seats they need to win they will never win with a traditional labour approach.

[Woodsey]

The real question now is can a traditional left wing labour party be anything other than a fringe party in modern day Britain?  Britain has voted convincingly over the past 40 years that they don't want a traditional left wing government.  Unless the labour party effectively become centre based (hence not a labour party imo and one trying to kid the country they are a labour party ala Blair) they pretty much don't understand that they can't win elections as all the key swing seats they need to win they will never win with a traditional labour approach.

Unlikely is the short answer, if Scotland buzz off then zero chance.

[celtic]

Who decides if Scotland has another referendum?

[Kmac84]

Who decides if Scotland has another referendum?

The electorate, the SNP will either have it in/out the 2016 Manifesto for the Scottish Parliament.  If SNP get a majority in Holyrood then they would have to press for it. 

I was always of the opinion that 2014 was 2 years too early, but now I think it would be wise for SNP not to go for this until 2020/21 as once the Tories have done more damage the thirst for independence will be stronger I am sure.

[Kmac84]

The real question now is can a traditional left wing labour party be anything other than a fringe party in modern day Britain?  Britain has voted convincingly over the past 40 years that they don't want a traditional left wing government.  Unless the labour party effectively become centre based (hence not a labour party imo and one trying to kid the country they are a labour party ala Blair) they pretty much don't understand that they can't win elections as all the key swing seats they need to win they will never win with a traditional labour approach.

I think Labour need to give up on Scotland and let an Independent Labour be formed up here that can focus on being left of Centre and the English/Wales Labour party can take itself to the centre. 

[The Camel]

While I am sympathetic for Scottish Independence cause, you can't just keep on having referendum (did you know that word doesn't have a plural?) until you win one.

That isn't democracy.

If it was, as soon as YES wins, the NO campaign would be justified in pressing for a referendum rejoining the union.

20 years minimum before you can even begin to think about asking IMO.

[The Camel]

And so it starts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/hours-after-the-election-the-dwp-says-is-looking-to-cut-a-disabled-access-to-work-scheme-10237191.html

[Hawk]

This is what it would look like if First past the post was changed to Proportional Representation

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/575888/Ukip-would-have-83-seats-under-proportional-representation

[Kmac84]

While I am sympathetic for Scottish Independence cause, you can't just keep on having referendum (did you know that word doesn't have a plural?) until you win one.

That isn't democracy.

If it was, as soon as YES wins, the NO campaign would be justified in pressing for a referendum rejoining the union.

20 years minimum before you can even begin to think about asking IMO.

I would maybe agree if the last Referendum was fought fairly but it wasn't.   

[Ironside]

Despite the snp winning 56 seats out of 59 last night if there was a referendum tomorrow the no would still win,  the snp got 50% of the vote but they got the 45% out

[The Camel]

While I am sympathetic for Scottish Independence cause, you can't just keep on having referendum (did you know that word doesn't have a plural?) until you win one.

That isn't democracy.

If it was, as soon as YES wins, the NO campaign would be justified in pressing for a referendum rejoining the union.

20 years minimum before you can even begin to think about asking IMO.

I would maybe agree if the last Referendum was fought fairly but it wasn't.   

In 20 years time, the old biddies who came out in droves to spoil the party last year will mostly be six feet under.

Bide your time and your day will come.

[George2Loose]

This is what it would look like if First past the post was changed to Proportional Representation

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/575888/Ukip-would-have-83-seats-under-proportional-representation

And that's before people stop tactical voting or don't vote at all because they think there's no point