So how do you fix this - mental game problem

[Rod]

Just a bit of background first. I have been playing the game for just over 11 years. I have never been really amazing at it but have always been profitable. After doing very well for the first half of this year over the last 6 months or so I have developed a strange problem with my game. I know what it is but can't fix it for some reason.

I keep making bad calls on the turn and the river. I am able to read the hands, board texture and action fine and understand what bets generally mean in certain spots. When I am watching friends play on either Team Viewer or live I can generally tell them the right thing to do in the games I play, I can even identify if they are making the same mistake I am and that they should stop doing it. The issue is I seem to be making way too many loose calls even though I know it is wrong. I do know this at the time but just do it anyway. I have been pretty much losing online since July this year when I seem to have developed this issue. I have reviewed the hands from online in poker tracker and this issue most certainly exists. I will continually have sessions where I generally play quite well then at the end make some silly calls. Usually on the turn and river and I end up with a losing or break even session.

This might seem like a silly issue but I can't seem to break out of it. Has anybody gone through this, if so what did you do, it should be a case of just stop doing it but I don't seemt o be able to do that for some reason. Suggestions would be most welcome.

[teddybloat]

i used to suffer from this. i'd make the read that i should fold and click call anyway.

one reason is i mentally did not want to be exploited. folding feels weak and you always have that doubt that you may be being pushed around. its summat you have to ley go off. by making good solid folds you are actually exploiting the population's imbalance in certain spots. making good laydowns is a sign of mental strength and confidence in your abilities as a player.

until you build that mental outlook / strength and confidence then i would suggest using your timebar. no matter how routine the decision make yourself wait till the time-bar gets to a certain point before carrying out your action. those extra seconds allow your concious logic to overwhelm the unconcious urge to 'see what he has'  and stop those crying-calls.

remind yourself that as pots are at their biggest on the river mistakes in them can significantly harm winrates.

alternatively small improvements in river decison making can be a boon of extra edge.

say you gain an extra 3% by taking the above steps on the river.

everytime you are in a 90bb pot on the river you will be taking home an extra 2.7bbs, in a 150bb pot you are making an extra 4.5bb.

that's a hefty chunk of change in todays lower edge games.

[Honeybadger]

First, you've got to be careful not to be results orientated with your river calls. When you make hero calls on the river you should lose the pot substantially more often than you win it. Otherwise you are not calling enough. If you only call on the river when you 'think you are winning' then you are not calling anywhere near enough. Many times on the river you should call expecting to lose the pot.

Because of this you will get a lot of subconscious negative reinforcement about the effectiveness of your river calls. If you are calling roughly correctly on rivers then you will experience more 'losing calls' than 'winning calls', and this can lead you to believing that you are making bad calls even though you are not.

[shipitgood]

If you are calling  a lot,  - more than you are betting, I would work more on taking control of pots and being more aggressive.

If you know you are beat and keep calling turn and especially river you will just be burning money. Most of the time your "gut" will be correct, go with it.

In these spots, we can be delighted knowing we have made the right fold.

Most big pots are coolers, a lot of money, if not the most, is made from the smaller pots, playing better/ making less mistakes compared to our opponents.

If there is spots you are unsure about post them up in poker hand analysis and people will be able to give feedback, which would probably show instant results in helping improve this area of your game.

[Ironside]

i am going to try the audio book for free of daveshoelaces mental side of poker and see if that can help i have seen me throwing away comps when i know they have sucked out on me

[DaveShoelace]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

[Rod]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

Know it is a mistake before doing it and do it anyway.

Happens randomly. I also know what people are saying here is right. That making the folds in these spots is one of the keys to being able to beat the modern game and until recently, I use to be able to do it easily. I do know that it is sometimes right to call in a spot where you might not be good that often if it is profitable long term but those are not the spots I have been seeing. It's like I have developed some kind of mental block in this situation. I can see what is wrong by looking back over hands and also in game but still seem to struggle with it. Seems like it should be really easy to just stop doing it but my thought process just seems to fail at the time and I end up clicking the call button.

[Rexas]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

Know it is a mistake before doing it and do it anyway.

Happens randomly. I also know what people are saying here is right. That making the folds in these spots is one of the keys to being able to beat the modern game and until recently, I use to be able to do it easily. I do know that it is sometimes right to call in a spot where you might not be good that often if it is profitable long term but those are not the spots I have been seeing. It's like I have developed some kind of mental block in this situation. I can see what is wrong by looking back over hands and also in game but still seem to struggle with it. Seems like it should be really easy to just stop doing it but my thought process just seems to fail at the time and I end up clicking the call button.

Personal confidence/trust issue? The whole making bad calls thing even when you know it is a mistake is the symptom, not the route cause. Think the first step in approaching any mental game problem is to accurately identify the route cause. So, what happened a few months ago?

[RED-DOG]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

Know it is a mistake before doing it and do it anyway.

Happens randomly. I also know what people are saying here is right. That making the folds in these spots is one of the keys to being able to beat the modern game and until recently, I use to be able to do it easily. I do know that it is sometimes right to call in a spot where you might not be good that often if it is profitable long term but those are not the spots I have been seeing. It's like I have developed some kind of mental block in this situation. I can see what is wrong by looking back over hands and also in game but still seem to struggle with it. Seems like it should be really easy to just stop doing it but my thought process just seems to fail at the time and I end up clicking the call button.

Personal confidence/trust issue? The whole making bad calls thing even when you know it is a mistake is the symptom, not the root cause. Think the first step in approaching any mental game problem is to accurately identify the root cause. So, what happened a few months ago?

Hope you don't mind me Fing your P Mr H.

[Rexas]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

Know it is a mistake before doing it and do it anyway.

Happens randomly. I also know what people are saying here is right. That making the folds in these spots is one of the keys to being able to beat the modern game and until recently, I use to be able to do it easily. I do know that it is sometimes right to call in a spot where you might not be good that often if it is profitable long term but those are not the spots I have been seeing. It's like I have developed some kind of mental block in this situation. I can see what is wrong by looking back over hands and also in game but still seem to struggle with it. Seems like it should be really easy to just stop doing it but my thought process just seems to fail at the time and I end up clicking the call button.

Personal confidence/trust issue? The whole making bad calls thing even when you know it is a mistake is the symptom, not the root cause. Think the first step in approaching any mental game problem is to accurately identify the root cause. So, what happened a few months ago?

Hope you don't mind me Fing your P Mr H.

I don't often make oversights like that :p I apologise for my atrocious grammatical error

[Rod]

Just before you make these bad calls, do you know it's a mistake just before you call but still do it, or do you not even think about it until after the call and afterwards realise it was a mistake?

Also is this common at specific times, for example after you have been playing well for 2-3 hours, or does it happen randomly?

Know it is a mistake before doing it and do it anyway.

Happens randomly. I also know what people are saying here is right. That making the folds in these spots is one of the keys to being able to beat the modern game and until recently, I use to be able to do it easily. I do know that it is sometimes right to call in a spot where you might not be good that often if it is profitable long term but those are not the spots I have been seeing. It's like I have developed some kind of mental block in this situation. I can see what is wrong by looking back over hands and also in game but still seem to struggle with it. Seems like it should be really easy to just stop doing it but my thought process just seems to fail at the time and I end up clicking the call button.

Personal confidence/trust issue? The whole making bad calls thing even when you know it is a mistake is the symptom, not the route cause. Think the first step in approaching any mental game problem is to accurately identify the route cause. So, what happened a few months ago?

In poker terms not a lot. I was beating the game so thought all was good, suddenly I was not and this started? Down to some kind of self doubt maybe? Making this thread has actually helped I think. Been able to make correct folds lately but running good so makes it easier. I agree and think this is a good point, I have certainly developed a confidence issue recently. I generally play 25nl Zoon on Stars.