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UgotNuts
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« on: March 16, 2015, 10:13:23 PM »

  vs

Level 4 of a 2 day monthly comp vs a aggressive reg. chipped up nicely to 50k at 100-200 25 Ante. Villain has 53k, rest of the table have around 25k

 Reg opens to 2.5 BB fold round to me in the small Blind and i make it 6.5 BB, Villain calls. Flop    lead for 1500, Villain makes it 7k immediately we  re-pop to 16K, villain makes it 37K we.......?

Any mistakes so far?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 10:22:30 PM by UgotNuts » Logged
shipitgood
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 11:15:43 PM »

Fold to the flop 3 bet.

It's such a dry board, OTF I would only call.

Is he going to take off with QQ having just called the 3 bet here? Or AJ, most regs wouldn't imo.

Not a big fan of his raise here on this board, he just allows you to fold pretty much everything.

Seems to be  a massive raise too.

Also a good shout for folding the flop, if we have the right read.


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WotRTheChances
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2015, 02:57:19 AM »

Fold to the flop 3 bet.

It's such a dry board, OTF I would only call.

Is he going to take off with QQ having just called the 3 bet here? Or AJ, most regs wouldn't imo.

Not a big fan of his raise here on this board, he just allows you to fold pretty much everything.

Seems to be  a massive raise too.

Also a good shout for folding the flop, if we have the right read.




Not sure what you mean by fold to the flop 3bet? Villain in this hand raises and 4-bets the flop, hero 3-bets.

I'd peel the flop raise to 7k, as played i'd fold to the 36 i guess, seems pretty optimistic to think he's not just got a set/64s when villain 4-bets J64r 250bb deep.
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UgotNuts
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2015, 08:35:06 AM »

Fold to the flop 3 bet.

It's such a dry board, OTF I would only call.

Is he going to take off with QQ having just called the 3 bet here? Or AJ, most regs wouldn't imo.

Not a big fan of his raise here on this board, he just allows you to fold pretty much everything.

Seems to be  a massive raise too.

Also a good shout for folding the flop, if we have the right read.




Thanks for the feedback.

The massive raise seemed to me to be a bit strange on  a dry board with the nuts. Was the reason i made it 16k with the intention to folding to an effective shove. I thought this guy would play top pair this way alot of the time as he is a bit overly agressive.  i find putting people on sets one of the hardest things to do.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 08:43:57 AM by UgotNuts » Logged
UgotNuts
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2015, 08:47:29 AM »

Fold to the flop 3 bet.

It's such a dry board, OTF I would only call.

Is he going to take off with QQ having just called the 3 bet here? Or AJ, most regs wouldn't imo.

Not a big fan of his raise here on this board, he just allows you to fold pretty much everything.

Seems to be  a massive raise too.

Also a good shout for folding the flop, if we have the right read.




Not sure what you mean by fold to the flop 3bet? Villain in this hand raises and 4-bets the flop, hero 3-bets.

I'd peel the flop raise to 7k, as played i'd fold to the 36 i guess, seems pretty optimistic to think he's not just got a set/64s when villain 4-bets J64r 250bb deep.

Thanks for the feedback.

Would you fold to a large turn bet once peeled?
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shipitgood
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2015, 11:19:03 AM »

Yeah should say 4 bet not 3 bet.
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WotRTheChances
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2015, 05:16:01 PM »

Fold to the flop 3 bet.

It's such a dry board, OTF I would only call.

Is he going to take off with QQ having just called the 3 bet here? Or AJ, most regs wouldn't imo.

Not a big fan of his raise here on this board, he just allows you to fold pretty much everything.

Seems to be  a massive raise too.

Also a good shout for folding the flop, if we have the right read.




Not sure what you mean by fold to the flop 3bet? Villain in this hand raises and 4-bets the flop, hero 3-bets.

I'd peel the flop raise to 7k, as played i'd fold to the 36 i guess, seems pretty optimistic to think he's not just got a set/64s when villain 4-bets J64r 250bb deep.

Thanks for the feedback.

Would you fold to a large turn bet once peeled?

Villain dependant i guess. The whole point of flatting the raise on the flop, rather than 3-betting, is to keep villains range wide. You don't do very well vs a get-it-in range otf, but just vs a raise, you're doing fine. Assuming he can have Jx QQ, some people who will raise to 'find out where they are'/clean up their equity with some medium pocket pairs etc. Vs some people you can just fold to a turn barrel, but you'll probably get reasonable info based on sizing, timings etc. I'd certainly fold to a large turn bet vs some (probably most of your average live mid-stakes rec players), but vs someone really aggro or vs someone very recreational... you might be loving a call down.
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GreekStein
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 03:25:54 AM »

vs

Level 4 of a 2 day monthly comp vs a aggressive reg. chipped up nicely to 50k at 100-200 25 Ante. Villain has 53k, rest of the table have around 25k

 Reg opens to 2.5 BB fold round to me in the small Blind and i make it 6.5 BB, Villain calls. Flop    lead for 1500, Villain makes it 7k immediately we  re-pop to 16K, villain makes it 37K we.......?

Any mistakes so far?

What position has he opened from?

I would 3b a bit bigger pre to like 8 or 9x.

Making it 16k on the flop is rly bad imo. Definitely think calling is better and then deciding what to do based on what opponent does on the turn.
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UgotNuts
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 01:27:55 PM »

vs

Level 4 of a 2 day monthly comp vs a aggressive reg. chipped up nicely to 50k at 100-200 25 Ante. Villain has 53k, rest of the table have around 25k

 Reg opens to 2.5 BB fold round to me in the small Blind and i make it 6.5 BB, Villain calls. Flop    lead for 1500, Villain makes it 7k immediately we  re-pop to 16K, villain makes it 37K we.......?

Any mistakes so far?

What position has he opened from?

I would 3b a bit bigger pre to like 8 or 9x.

Making it 16k on the flop is rly bad imo. Definitely think calling is better and then deciding what to do based on what opponent does on the turn.

He opened from UTG +3

I guess by calling his raise on the flop I don't fold out hands I'm beating. However vs this Reg he plays hands like AJ, KJ, QJ the same way and occasionally plays Ace high this way too. Only hands I would be folding out would be Medium pairs which didn't hit a set.

Once called, I guess I cant fold to a 10-14K bet on the turn, If I did then I may as well fold on the flop I feel. After raising on the flop he is betting when checked to almost all the time.

Its a tough one for me.
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 02:00:41 PM »

mate, you dont want to fold out hands you are beating, think about it.. you want the hands villain to be raising as wide a range of cards as possible, because the more weaker hands hands in villains range results in your KK having a better chance of winning
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UgotNuts
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 04:11:36 PM »

mate, you dont want to fold out hands you are beating, think about it.. you want the hands villain to be raising as wide a range of cards as possible, because the more weaker hands hands in villains range results in your KK having a better chance of winning

Sorry I'm confused.

I Didn't say, or mean to come across that I want him to fold hands I'm beating. I'm just writing as if I was thinking out loud. I understand the concept of keeping people's range as wide as possible.

In this case I felt his line of action wasn't limited to just a set, as he is a bit on the wild side. In effect making It 16K was originally for value out of hands like AJ, which I know from experience he would take the same line with.

I wasn't sure about this though so I thought I would share.

From the sounds of it I'm thinking about it all wrong   
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muckthenuts
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 06:10:51 PM »

Can't help but feel like 3betting the flop has probably induced a fair bit
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Oxford_HRV
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 06:17:59 PM »

mate, you dont want to fold out hands you are beating, think about it.. you want the hands villain to be raising as wide a range of cards as possible, because the more weaker hands hands in villains range results in your KK having a better chance of winning

Sorry I'm confused.

I Didn't say, or mean to come across that I want him to fold hands I'm beating. I'm just writing as if I was thinking out loud. I understand the concept of keeping people's range as wide as possible.

In this case I felt his line of action wasn't limited to just a set, as he is a bit on the wild side. In effect making It 16K was originally for value out of hands like AJ, which I know from experience he would take the same line with.

I wasn't sure about this though so I thought I would share.

From the sounds of it I'm thinking about it all wrong   

No, my bad, I'm the confused one here lol.

I think your thinking here vs your described opponent is fine, what I don't think youve factored in is that this is early doors in a 2 day comp and you have 250bb in a relatively fair speed and structured tournament. You've played the hand way too fast comparatively to the stack size and structure
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UgotNuts
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 06:23:14 PM »

Completely agree that me and villain both played a pot way too big for the time in the comp.
 
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 06:26:35 PM »

What you need to think about is "how will my opponent react with his range if I 3bet the flop?"

Ask yourself questions like "Is he more likely to stack off with AJ if I raise?", "Will he see a raise as full of shit and rebluff/ hero call?" - If Yes, then 3betting the flop is likely the best play.

However, if not, ask yourself "Will he see a call as weak and keep betting on the turn?", "Is he finding out where he is or maybe bluffing and will just fold to a raise?", "Can I gain more information by keeping the pot small and getting more information based on his turn action?"

This seems more likely. Some players you can induce vs by raising the flop, but vs most, calling is the best play I think. Keep his bluffs in, don't scare off his Jx, control the size of the pot, gain more information on the turn and make a better decision there.
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