The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Jon MW]

...

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, ...

I'd have more of an issue with what it is a majority of.

It's a majority of the people who voted, it wasn't even the majority of people eligible to vote.

Most people in the country didn't vote for Brexit - that is a meaningful majority.

The majority of people dont vote for the government of any era, on the same basis.......That is a meaningful majority too, but if people cant be bothered then they lose the chance to moan.

But when people vote in a general election they are voting in a system of representative democracy - the person who they elect represents:
(1) the people who vote for them, as well as
(2) the people who didn't vote for them - as well as
(3) the people who didn't vote at all.

i.e. everyone is being represented in this democratic process.

In a referendum you are engaging in direct democracy - i.e. if 'Leave' wins and we 'Leave' as a result then this form of democratic process only represents the people who voted for it.

Which in this case is somewhere around a third of the country.

[BigAdz]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Oh Grant.

Dont be a sniper it doesn't suit you.

Yes, I have been pretty clear in my views but, have also asked questions and said I can see why people have their opinions. Not seen anyone else do that.......

[BigAdz]

...

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, ...

I'd have more of an issue with what it is a majority of.

It's a majority of the people who voted, it wasn't even the majority of people eligible to vote.

Most people in the country didn't vote for Brexit - that is a meaningful majority.

The majority of people dont vote for the government of any era, on the same basis.......That is a meaningful majority too, but if people cant be bothered then they lose the chance to moan.

But when people vote in a general election they are voting in a system of representative democracy - the person who they elect represents:
(1) the people who vote for them, as well as
(2) the people who didn't vote for them - as well as
(3) the people who didn't vote at all.

i.e. everyone is being represented in this democratic process.

In a referendum you are engaging in direct democracy - i.e. if 'Leave' wins and we 'Leave' as a result then this form of democratic process only represents the people who voted for it.

Which in this case is somewhere around a third of the country.

So what you are saying is that if remain had won, we shouldn't remain either???!!

[Mark_Porter]

I don't understand why Corbyn is refusing to talk to Theresa unless she rules out no deal?

I don't understand how she could rule it out? It's the default position unless something else is agreed. Saying it 100% won't happen isn't possible for anyone is it?

[BigAdz]

And while we are at it. On similar lines

I don't accept this bullshit that the people that voted didn't know what they voted for therefore it shouldn't stand.


I bet if you ask a great number of people who vote during an election, if they could talk with any sense about the party manifesto, for whom they have just voted..........get my drift....

[Jon MW]

...

I am not even going to bother with Aarons assumption that a majority isnt a majority if its not much, ...

I'd have more of an issue with what it is a majority of.

It's a majority of the people who voted, it wasn't even the majority of people eligible to vote.

Most people in the country didn't vote for Brexit - that is a meaningful majority.

The majority of people dont vote for the government of any era, on the same basis.......That is a meaningful majority too, but if people cant be bothered then they lose the chance to moan.

But when people vote in a general election they are voting in a system of representative democracy - the person who they elect represents:
(1) the people who vote for them, as well as
(2) the people who didn't vote for them - as well as
(3) the people who didn't vote at all.

i.e. everyone is being represented in this democratic process.

In a referendum you are engaging in direct democracy - i.e. if 'Leave' wins and we 'Leave' as a result then this form of democratic process only represents the people who voted for it.

Which in this case is somewhere around a third of the country.

So what you are saying is that if remain had won, we shouldn't remain either???!!

I'm saying we live in a representative democracy - we never should have had a referendum.

I never claimed I was being constructive

[ripple11]

I don't understand why Corbyn is refusing to talk to Theresa unless she rules out no deal?

I don't understand how she could rule it out? It's the default position unless something else is agreed. Saying it 100% won't happen isn't possible for anyone is it?

Exactly.

He is such an idiot.

Should have met with May....told her whatever happens do not allow "no deal". Then come out of the meeting and say he's told her what to do, and then when we get a deal/remain, he can pretend to take some credit.

[nirvana]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Excellent. Ranks up there with one of the most deluded quotes ever. FACT

[nirvana]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Oh Grant.

Dont be a sniper it doesn't suit you.

Yes, I have been pretty clear in my views but, have also asked questions and said I can see why people have their opinions. Not seen anyone else do that.......

You haven't seen anyone else ask questions or see other people acknowledge others opinions ? Nurse !

[tikay]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Excellent. Ranks up there with one of the most deluded quotes ever. FACT

 

Click to see full-size image.

[nirvana]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Excellent. Ranks up there with one of the most deluded quotes ever. FACT

 

Click to see full-size image.

Haha. Paul looking happier than he often did here..sorry grumpy Paul

[BigAdz]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Excellent. Ranks up there with one of the most deluded quotes ever. FACT

So blinkered.

Even the late Kukushkin admitted I was the only one who was prepared to give a little.......when he wasn't calling me a #/:(.

[Mark_Porter]

I personally disagree with another vote but this article is interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/saturday-uk-remain-parliament-force-second-referendum

The true “will of the people” looks considerably more questionable if it turns out to be the will of dead people.

[DaveShoelace]

As the only person on this thread who has shown any capacity to see the other side of this coin

 

You can't make this stuff up

Indeed.

Excellent. Ranks up there with one of the most deluded quotes ever. FACT

 

Click to see full-size image.

Ha, Paul is my accountant of many many years. I still love doing the.......FACT thing to people who dont know what I'm on about.

What was the context of that, I cant remember?

[aaron1867]

I don't understand why Corbyn is refusing to talk to Theresa unless she rules out no deal?

I don't understand how she could rule it out? It's the default position unless something else is agreed. Saying it 100% won't happen isn't possible for anyone is it?

Exactly.

He is such an idiot.

Should have met with May....told her whatever happens do not allow "no deal". Then come out of the meeting and say he's told her what to do, and then when we get a deal/remain, he can pretend to take some credit.

I am not a fan of Corbyn, but I don't mind his position on this.

Theresa has put herself in a corner with all of this & the (apparent) worst outcome of it all is a no-deal Brexit. So, Jeremy Corbyn is pulling the strings by saying take it off the table, or you don't get that cross party set of talks. I actually really like his position on this, rather than his position on a GE or a no confidence.

But, I do genuinely wonder what happens in two weeks if she gets her deal voted down again?