The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[JohnCharver]

Nelson Mandela wouldnt condemn the Provos.  He was asked to, but he thought decommissioning was also wrong.  

Mandela is arguably going to be regarded as one of history's greatest figures he made mistakes but he was fighting a cause.

At his funeral Gerry Adams was part of the guard of honour, something he was actually very emotional about such was the esteem he was held in by Madiba.

I don't recall any British official being involved or any anti-apartheid campaigner being in that guard of honour.  

I know of many meetings that were held in Belfast, Glasgow, London and Birmingham to name but a few places were politicians spoke to former IRA prisoners, National Executive Members of Sinn Fein and activists from all those cities.  But somehow its only Corbyn and McDonnell who wanted the RA to win.  Come on, expand your minds.

Youre missing the point, you think hes being asked to condemn the IRA, hes being asked to condemn terrorists targeting the public to make their point, ring any bells.

[JohnCharver]

Question. In six days time how many party leaders will have resigned and who? Nearest the pin wins a huge prize* *possibly

Zero

[DaveShoelace]

Question. In six days time how many party leaders will have resigned and who? Nearest the pin wins a huge prize* *possibly

The only leader I could see leaving is May if she is no longer PM.

Lib Dem and SNP have already acknowledged May likely wins and see themselves as opposition anyway. Corbyn is a zealot so he wont go and I suspect would have no problem splitting the Labour party by sticking around after. UKIP are dead anyway and presumably are expecting no seats.

So if May wins, zero.

[PokerBroker]

I think Farron has to go. 

[Jon MW]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

What else do you have? You got bashed up in the war and don't even have a conventional army anymore.

The French resistance in WWII had no conventional army - they still targeted military targets rather than civilian. I'm sure there can be found examples where innocents got caught up in it but that's a lot different to the intentional targeting of civilians.

[kukushkin88]

I guess I think Corbyn and May might both go and no one else. I think I'd prefer Corbyn stays now, which would have felt crazy a month ago. The lineup of 'talent' waiting to replace May is scary. Can't think anybody would actually be worse though. Genuinely what could they actually do? It's a shocking lineup nonetheless.

[kukushkin88]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

What else do you have? You got bashed up in the war and don't even have a conventional army anymore.

The French resistance in WWII had no conventional army - they still targeted military targets rather than civilian. I'm sure there can be found examples where innocents got caught up in it but that's a lot different to the intentional targeting of civilians.

Their actions are admirable and the 'right' way to do it, they had some pretty powerful friends though, which I think changes the dynamic. It doesn't detract from what they achieved though.

[JohnCharver]

I think Farron has to go. 

For who though, they had no really choice but to go with him and the obvious choice is bring back clegg, but he might lose his seat. Not really his fault, they had to go for remainers, who knew people would rather vote the party that caused it.

[ripple11]

Question. In six days time how many party leaders will have resigned and who? Nearest the pin wins a huge prize* *possibly

May wins with a majority ...safe
Jezza loses but a "defendable" result....safe
Farron could well be down to a taxi from a minibus ... going to say goes.
Nutall....expecting mass migration of votes ,and no MP's...... so as you were.
Wood...as you were
Sturgeon...wings clipped but obviously stays.
Kezia Dugdale ...can't get much worse in Scotland...so stays.
2x Greens...both stay

[Longy]

Question. In six days time how many party leaders will have resigned and who? Nearest the pin wins a huge prize* *possibly

Based on what I think is the likely outcome (Tory maj of 50), I think Farron and Nuttall go, Corbyn clings on and the Labour Party potentially split.

[The Camel]

I wouldn't be surprised if UKIP disolved altogether.

[kukushkin88]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

How can a guy advocating using a weapon designed and capable of removing cities and nations from the face of the earth be worried about murdering people who are taking no part? You pull the trigger on Trident you probably more murder people than have been murdered in all of human history combined. Surely these are massively conflicting positions?

[JohnCharver]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

How can a guy advocating using a weapon designed and capable of removing cities and nations from the face of the earth be worried about murdering people who are taking no part? You pull the trigger on Trident you probably more murder people than have been murdered in all of human history combined. Surely these are massively conflicting positions?

Who advocates it? Think I was clear I dont. But if you are in charge of a party backing trident you have to be willing to pull the trigger or we shouldnt have it (also dont back trident). Its not what you believe in, its what your belief plus policy does.

Theres of course the fact that if you could nuke a german city they may think twice about invading you in your example where as if you bomb manchester and kill as many english as german you would achieve about the same as ISIS.

[kukushkin88]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

How can a guy advocating using a weapon designed and capable of removing cities and nations from the face of the earth be worried about murdering people who are taking no part? You pull the trigger on Trident you probably more murder people than have been murdered in all of human history combined. Surely these are massively conflicting positions?

Who advocates it? Think I was clear I dont. But if you are in charge of a party backing trident you have to be willing to pull the trigger or we shouldnt have it (also dont back trident). Its not what you believe in, its what your belief plus policy does.

Theres of course the fact that if you could nuke a german city they may think twice about invading you in your example where as if you bomb manchester and kill as many english as german you would achieve about the same as ISIS.

To be clear, hopefully. You should say you would use it but actually you shouldn't use it?

Don't think ISIS are relevant, religion and religious fanaticism are forms of insanity, not relevant here.

[JohnCharver]

Big hypothetical, apologies if this upsets anyone or thinks it's redundant nonsense. Had the German's won WW2 and are occupying. How long are we allowed to keep fighting back? How long until when we fight back we are condemned as terrorists?

Hypothetical, is it fighting back to blow is city centres in britain or germany murdering people taking no part in the invasion/occupation.

How can a guy advocating using a weapon designed and capable of removing cities and nations from the face of the earth be worried about murdering people who are taking no part? You pull the trigger on Trident you probably more murder people than have been murdered in all of human history combined. Surely these are massively conflicting positions?

Who advocates it? Think I was clear I dont. But if you are in charge of a party backing trident you have to be willing to pull the trigger or we shouldnt have it (also dont back trident). Its not what you believe in, its what your belief plus policy does.

Theres of course the fact that if you could nuke a german city they may think twice about invading you in your example where as if you bomb manchester and kill as many english as german you would achieve about the same as ISIS.

To be clear, hopefully. You should say you would use it but actually you shouldn't use it?

Don't think ISIS are relevant, religion and religious fanaticism are forms of insanity, not relevant here.

Yes, isnt that what every politician in any country since '45 have done. Hes already agreed to do such by fronting a party with trident in their manifesto.

forms of insanity like erm the nazis.