The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[nirvana]

Not a troll of Kuku as he is one of the interesting posters here and I like reading a range of views. Not just the simplistic tory boy fantasies of Manters and Wooders :-)

I do think Corbyn has something of a blindspot on this issue - platitudes about "I've always protested racism etc so I can't be anti Jew"don't really wash.

It seems quite apparent that these two elements are easy bedfellows for the left - virtue signal your antic racist views with rhetoric and also embrace anti jewishness - it doesn't make you completely bad to a level you need to apologise and cry at a press conference, but it does mean you can't confront your own prejudices in an honest way.

The right also being anti jewish doesnt get you off the hook either

Love your posts, no risk of me mistaking me you for a troll. I lost the faith when you lost the plot re:Brexit but you're still in the top 3 posters in my book.

I think the fact that JC has a very strong stance against human rights abuses in the Middle East has made the party attractive to some nutters with extreme views, crazy but to my mind true. If you saw the determination and pasision of the people who will get the nutters out of the party from my view, I hope that you would be impressed.

Agreed that the racist right justifies/excuses nothing. I was just replying directly to Rick that the right is a: much more racist and b: does fuck all about it.

Voting for Brexit, for me, was like an affirmation of historical left wing principles, my most obvious Corbynite tendency, and it's not really articulated much these days other than by rogues like Galloway. Unfortunately, this brings me into sharing a 'cause'  mainly led by neo-liberals. Cause is a bit strong because I'm pretty ambivalent about Brexit even though it was clear to me which way I would vote from the outset.

It's hard for me to decide whether I should dislike neo-liberals more than the soft peddling, middle of the road, centre-right capitalists that form the bulk of the vocal leadership of remain. On balance I probably prefer the neo-liberals to the Tony Blair/Paddy Ashdown/Michael Heseltine type coalition around this issue.

[MANTIS01]

Point of order directed at Liberal Nirvants. These are not simplistic Tory boy fantasies they are high level political bantz. When two sides fundamentally disagree and will never agree all we have left is bantz. Now please carry on.

Haha, different gravy level. So hard to take you seriously when you mow down motability people

ROFL much better. Carry on.

[kukushkin88]

Not a troll of Kuku as he is one of the interesting posters here and I like reading a range of views. Not just the simplistic tory boy fantasies of Manters and Wooders :-)

I do think Corbyn has something of a blindspot on this issue - platitudes about "I've always protested racism etc so I can't be anti Jew"don't really wash.

It seems quite apparent that these two elements are easy bedfellows for the left - virtue signal your antic racist views with rhetoric and also embrace anti jewishness - it doesn't make you completely bad to a level you need to apologise and cry at a press conference, but it does mean you can't confront your own prejudices in an honest way.

The right also being anti jewish doesnt get you off the hook either

Love your posts, no risk of me mistaking me you for a troll. I lost the faith when you lost the plot re:Brexit but you're still in the top 3 posters in my book.

I think the fact that JC has a very strong stance against human rights abuses in the Middle East has made the party attractive to some nutters with extreme views, crazy but to my mind true. If you saw the determination and pasision of the people who will get the nutters out of the party from my view, I hope that you would be impressed.

Agreed that the racist right justifies/excuses nothing. I was just replying directly to Rick that the right is a: much more racist and b: does fuck all about it.

Voting for Brexit, for me, was like an affirmation of historical left wing principles, my most obvious Corbynite tendency, and it's not really articulated much these days other than by rogues like Galloway. Unfortunately, this brings me into sharing a 'cause'  mainly led by neo-liberals. Cause is a bit strong because I'm pretty ambivalent about Brexit even though it was clear to me which way I would vote from the outset.

It's hard for me to decide whether I should dislike neo-liberals more than the soft peddling, middle of the road, centre-right capitalists that form the bulk of the vocal leadership of remain. On balance I probably prefer the neo-liberals to the Tony Blair/Paddy Ashdown/Michael Heseltine type coalition around this issue.

Very interesting, Tony Benn is a man I admired greatly, he would have supported Brexit and Christopher Hitchens (absolute legend) basically became a neo- liberal. A few beers with those two would have been awesome. Sadly Galloway, like Livingstone seems to basically be broken, it would serve them both well to keep entirely out of the public eye.

[TightEnd]

“And we shall illustrate this glorious moment with... a large cliff edge”.

[neeko]

“And we shall illustrate this glorious moment with... a large cliff edge”.

Is there a meme of this yet with photoshopped lemmings?

[rfgqqabc]

Not a troll of Kuku as he is one of the interesting posters here and I like reading a range of views. Not just the simplistic tory boy fantasies of Manters and Wooders :-)

I do think Corbyn has something of a blindspot on this issue - platitudes about "I've always protested racism etc so I can't be anti Jew"don't really wash.

It seems quite apparent that these two elements are easy bedfellows for the left - virtue signal your antic racist views with rhetoric and also embrace anti jewishness - it doesn't make you completely bad to a level you need to apologise and cry at a press conference, but it does mean you can't confront your own prejudices in an honest way.

The right also being anti jewish doesnt get you off the hook either

Love your posts, no risk of me mistaking me you for a troll. I lost the faith when you lost the plot re:Brexit but you're still in the top 3 posters in my book.

I think the fact that JC has a very strong stance against human rights abuses in the Middle East has made the party attractive to some nutters with extreme views, crazy but to my mind true. If you saw the determination and pasision of the people who will get the nutters out of the party from my view, I hope that you would be impressed.

Agreed that the racist right justifies/excuses nothing. I was just replying directly to Rick that the right is a: much more racist and b: does fuck all about it.

Voting for Brexit, for me, was like an affirmation of historical left wing principles, my most obvious Corbynite tendency, and it's not really articulated much these days other than by rogues like Galloway. Unfortunately, this brings me into sharing a 'cause'  mainly led by neo-liberals. Cause is a bit strong because I'm pretty ambivalent about Brexit even though it was clear to me which way I would vote from the outset.

It's hard for me to decide whether I should dislike neo-liberals more than the soft peddling, middle of the road, centre-right capitalists that form the bulk of the vocal leadership of remain. On balance I probably prefer the neo-liberals to the Tony Blair/Paddy Ashdown/Michael Heseltine type coalition around this issue.

I always thought we were on opposing sides but this is something I completely agree with. Weird how these bias forms from just a few of the more memorable posts sticking out.

And yeah sorry Rick I felt like I'd done you a disservice today as I realised you could be talking about the structure of Brexit and not just the economic outcome or w/e.

Great few pages and lots to think about despite the venom. Thanks all

[mikeymike]

Does the Jewish community speak for the majority or the minority the same with the Arab league, I expect in both cases it is the minority.

JC's support of the Palestinians does not make him anti Jewish, Blair was brilliant and still is at playing both sides.

Britain is an insignificant player in the Arab/Jewish conflict and in a couple of decades the USA will have an Hispanic president and Israel will lose the support of the USA - then it will really kick off. Israel will be weakened some of the Arab countries will chance there arm, and as well as having a go at Israel they will chance there arm attacking the liberal Arab countries and friends of the west, then it will all kick off - probably the seeds for the 3rd World War.

Personally though my money is on the Germans strengthening their position in Europe and eventually really pissing off the Brits - ding dong 3rd world war.

Somewhere down the road that War is coming and it will be brutal because countries will have to pick sides quicker or be dragged into there own civil war 

[Woodsey]

Does the Jewish community speak for the majority or the minority the same with the Arab league, I expect in both cases it is the minority.

JC's support of the Palestinians does not make him anti Jewish, Blair was brilliant and still is at playing both sides.

Britain is an insignificant player in the Arab/Jewish conflict and in a couple of decades the USA will have an Hispanic president and Israel will lose the support of the USA - then it will really kick off. Israel will be weakened some of the Arab countries will chance there arm, and as well as having a go at Israel they will chance there arm attacking the liberal Arab countries and friends of the west, then it will all kick off - probably the seeds for the 3rd World War.

Personally though my money is on the Germans strengthening their position in Europe and eventually really pissing off the Brits - ding dong 3rd world war.

Somewhere down the road that War is coming and it will be brutal because countries will have to pick sides quicker or be dragged into there own civil war 

Of all the WW3 scenarios out there I really can never see it being Brits v Germans (or any euro country really) as being the spark, what you been drinking tonight?

I’m admittedly on the raspberry vodka 

[TightEnd]

KEY FINDING:

Only 19% of Labour members think there is a serious and  (edited in so my maths looks a bit better, RP) genuine antisemitism problem.

77% think the extent of antisemitism in Labour is being deliberately exaggerated to hurt Jeremy Corbyn or stifle criticism of Israel

[TightEnd]

There's a lot of fairly shocking stuff in the Times poll of Labour members but this is extraordinary. More of them think the US is a force for bad in the world than Iran.

[Woodsey]

KEY FINDING:

Only 19% 66% of Labour members think there is a genuine antisemitism problem.

77% think the extent of antisemitism in Labour is being deliberately exaggerated to hurt Jeremy Corbyn or stifle criticism of Israel

FYP

[RickBFA]

There's a lot of fairly shocking stuff in the Times poll of Labour members but this is extraordinary. More of them think the US is a force for bad in the world than Iran.

26% of the members thinking our country is a force for bad is an interesting finding too.

[MANTIS01]

I've always been an ardent supporter of the notion there's no such thing as bad publicity. Yet recent images like Lord Sugar tweeting Corbyn next to Hitler and Corbyn wearing commie hat outside the Kremlin have made me rethink. Even the most avid Jezza supporter must accept he sucks at riding the media fairground and as such he's a disaster for the party. The first two words in Leftie retaliation will be "yeah but"...those images are doctored, "yeah but"...he says sensible things, "yeah but"...if only people weren't such simpletons. Well "yeah but" nothing because you need to be a media player in this day and age, Trump has demonstrated that precisely. So why keep trying to stop the world turning and spin it the other way? "Yeah but"...

Last week my mate (who was admittedly very very drunk) told me about his vision for a new swanky London eaterie. The only thing on the menu was Avacado. He took me through all the details about how healthy Avacado is and how the restaurant would support Fair Trade, sustainable, bio-degradable, swanky, trendy. I kept saying "But no fecker will come". Didn't matter to him, "yeah but" once they realise about the different recipes and charity work. "But no fecker will come". "Yeah but"....

Incidentally: I was driving down the road the other day when a cyclist shouted that my car was green and ugly....Yeah but at least I avacado.

[rfgqqabc]

I've always been an ardent supporter of the notion there's no such thing as bad publicity. Yet recent images like Lord Sugar tweeting Corbyn next to Hitler and Corbyn wearing commie hat outside the Kremlin have made me rethink. Even the most avid Jezza supporter must accept he sucks at riding the media fairground and as such he's a disaster for the party. The first two words in Leftie retaliation will be "yeah but"...those images are doctored, "yeah but"...he says sensible things, "yeah but"...if only people weren't such simpletons. Well "yeah but" nothing because you need to be a media player in this day and age, Trump has demonstrated that precisely. So why keep trying to stop the world turning and spin it the other way? "Yeah but"...

Last week my mate (who was admittedly very very drunk) told me about his vision for a new swanky London eaterie. The only thing on the menu was Avacado. He took me through all the details about how healthy Avacado is and how the restaurant would support Fair Trade, sustainable, bio-degradable, swanky, trendy. I kept saying "But no fecker will come". Didn't matter to him, "yeah but" once they realise about the different recipes and charity work. "But no fecker will come". "Yeah but"....

Incidentally: I was driving down the road the other day when a cyclist shouted that my car was green and ugly....Yeah but at least I avacado.

https://www.avocaderia.com/stories/

Opened early last year expanding to a 2nd NY location. Not saying London is the same as NY but food for thought. Pretty sure he stole the idea from Shark Tank.

Agree re media thoughts but JC being genuine is part of what I want to support. At some point principles have a price I guess and its probably a good reason for him never to have become Labour leader. Not really sure on what the answer is as I think principles and media-savvy don't really coexist.

[nirvana]

Eddie Izzard appointed to Labour's NEC, clowns.