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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180534 times)
MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #14805 on: October 23, 2018, 10:25:20 PM »

A mere selection of quotes from the "sensible argument" and superior wizard logic put forward by the Der Spiegel article on behalf of Remain.

"When all the Polish plumbers go home there will be nobody to call when the toilet clogs up"

"Trucks will back up all the way to Wales"

"The petrol stations will run out of petrol"

"They'll be left in their water-damaged homes with no heating oil and no aspirin"

"You act like you are the center of the world"

"The United Kingdom is currently demonstrating how a country can make a fool of itself before the eyes of the entire world"
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« Reply #14806 on: October 23, 2018, 10:38:55 PM »

A mere selection of quotes from the "sensible argument" and superior wizard logic put forward by the Der Spiegel article on behalf of Remain.

"When all the Polish plumbers go home there will be nobody to call when the toilet clogs up"

"Trucks will back up all the way to Wales"

"The petrol stations will run out of petrol"

"They'll be left in their water-damaged homes with no heating oil and no aspirin"

"You act like you are the center of the world"

"The United Kingdom is currently demonstrating how a country can make a fool of itself before the eyes of the entire world"



Does Spiegel mean Sun?
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #14807 on: October 24, 2018, 12:08:10 PM »

Who are all these Wizards?

Are they allowed in after Brexit?

I always had a soft spot for Rincewind

 Click to see full-size image.
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« Reply #14808 on: October 24, 2018, 12:49:23 PM »

A mere selection of quotes from the "sensible argument" and superior wizard logic put forward by the Der Spiegel article on behalf of Remain.

"When all the Polish plumbers go home there will be nobody to call when the toilet clogs up"

"Trucks will back up all the way to Wales"

"The petrol stations will run out of petrol"

"They'll be left in their water-damaged homes with no heating oil and no aspirin"

"You act like you are the center of the world"

"The United Kingdom is currently demonstrating how a country can make a fool of itself before the eyes of the entire world"



Does Spiegel mean Sun?

mirror actually
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ripple11
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« Reply #14809 on: October 24, 2018, 01:33:51 PM »

How to remove a Conservative leader. george eaton on the numbers the rebels need to oust May

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/how-remove-conservative-leader

There maybe 48 tory MP's that want a new leader....but I doubt there are 48 that are stupid enough to want that before 29th March .

Graham Bradley says he will confirm will all the signatories before announcing the 48 limit has been reached. I'm sure a few old letters writers will be taken into a corner for a quiet sensible word.
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teddybloat
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« Reply #14810 on: October 24, 2018, 04:06:37 PM »

the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #14811 on: October 24, 2018, 05:42:59 PM »

 
the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised

 
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« Reply #14812 on: October 24, 2018, 05:43:59 PM »

the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised


Superb post and pretty much sums up this thread.
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Woodsey
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« Reply #14813 on: October 24, 2018, 05:58:43 PM »

Now the cowardly custards have run away from the thread I assume that means leave won the debate?  disco disco  disco 
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #14814 on: October 24, 2018, 06:13:57 PM »

the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised

1) Leave Campaign told outright lies throughout- see claims re NHS and EU contributions which failed to take into account rebates.
2) Many Leavers have claimed throughout that there is no short or medium term economic damage. "Project Fear" does not sound like Leavers accepting the economic damage, it simply is them trying to say the Government was trying to scare them (not that I disagree with that.)
3) I do not see why when the issue is so divisive AND people are now better informed, how having another referendum could be considered undemocratic. I do understand repeating a referendum until you get the result you want is. However, I don't think this is a fair comparison. Even the staunchest Leaver must admit, we were under prepared and things are a real mess.
4) I stopped discussing politics with one of my closest friends who is a Leaver, after he insisted that Turkey will join the EU. How do you debate with that level of delusion? The issue is too polarising, neither side really listen to one another. It just strengthens people's existing view, which seeing as I regard this issue as grey and not black or white then further discussion is counter productive.
5) The irrationality of voters can clearly be seen by the counties that both pay/receive EU money. London who pays vote to Remain, Cornwall, North West vote to leave despite being beneficiary.

https://www.epsilontheory.com/things-fall-apart-pt-1/

Link from a smart man who understands the polarising nature of our political climate at the moment.

A question Leavers may really want to consider. Is leaving the EU worth it, if it puts Corbyn in the driving seat? Be careful what you wish for.


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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #14815 on: October 24, 2018, 06:21:16 PM »

I mean Mantis has regurgitated the "get beyond the boys" spiel like its the run up to a World Cup or something. I really don't think he has accepted short to medium term economic damage, not that I fancy going through this thread to find examples.
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booder
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« Reply #14816 on: October 24, 2018, 06:32:05 PM »

the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised

Good post Sir.
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« Reply #14817 on: October 24, 2018, 06:34:23 PM »

the remain side will continue to lose the arguments as they fail to engage in any debate that isn't centered around the short-mid term damage leaving will cause whilst loftily saying that we were tricked into ticking an option that we now must regret.

people voting leave overwhelmingly voted on two issues: immigration and autonomy.

we were well aware of the downsides of leaving - how could we not be, remains campaign was a procession of warnings of the economic terror to come.

remain continue to fight a campaign that simply tells leave voters that we were too ignorant to make an informed decision, that we are old xenophobes, that we voted in error and that the biggest democratic event in recent history wasnt democratic enough and needs to be re-run a couple of years later.

had leave voters been treated with respect and had their concerns met with debate then you might not need middle class teenagers with ironic rick astley placards pleading for a referendum to be overturned on the premise that working class folk haven't a nuanced enough view on issues that effect their lives for their vote to be taken at first value first time round.

leave voters had a cogent and consistent view on this for years before the referendum,, our views arent going to be swayed by being patronised

I fundamentally disagree with you on the core issue and your logic on some points in your post, and could argue through the points made, but I’m pleased to see a rational post from the Leave side that can be argued with on a logical basis, instead of the madness from some other posters who have completely gone off the rails. Maybe tomorrow. Sorry for patronising you one more time.
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #14818 on: October 24, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »

Imagine you're the manager of England and you've made your decision about the players in your World Cup squad. As the plane takes off for the tournament you start telling anybody within earshot how poor your squad is. You should have taken different decisions. The players you left behind should be on the plane instead. The Germans have a better team, the French will batter us, our chances of success are zero. Not only that you simply don't stop with this negative rhetoric. On the training pitch you're moaning, in the dressing room before the game you're moaning, in the post-match interview you're running your players down. You say they're embarrassing the country in front of the whole world. Imagine behaving like that instead of rallying the troops. Imagine the damage you're doing.
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« Reply #14819 on: October 24, 2018, 06:47:12 PM »

instead of the madness from some other posters who have completely gone off the rails.

QED

Imagine you're the manager of England and you've made your decision about the players in your World Cup squad. As the plane takes off for the tournament you start telling anybody within earshot how poor your squad is. You should have taken different decisions. The players you left behind should be on the plane instead. The Germans have a better team, the French will batter us, our chances of success are zero. Not only that you simply don't stop with this negative rhetoric. On the training pitch you're moaning, in the dressing room before the game you're moaning, in the post-match interview you're running your players down. You say they're embarrassing the country in front of the whole world. Imagine behaving like that instead of rallying the troops. Imagine the damage you're doing.

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