The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[BigAdz]

Humour bypass time again.

Really must remember those smileys for the sensitive.

if it was remotely amusing i wouldn't have responded

of course you meant it seriously, you have form!

I genuinely don't think you have a sense of humour if you are remotely the butt of the jock.

Don't worry, it's a common remainer trait

[RED-DOG]

 the butt of the jock.

[MANTIS01]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

I am pretty happy to see lots of England flags flown and on cars during the World cup, I am a bit more wary of somebody who has an England flag covering their roof in November.   I suspect if you split the question between roof man in November and flag wearer in the World Cup, you'd get a significantly different split of positives and negatives.

As I said before the GB flag has fewer negative connotations; I can't remember anyone launching into "Two World Wars and one World Cup" at the olympics and you see a lot more England flags when warm cuddly racists go out for one of their gentle strolls through English cities.

We had the same problem during the 80's where all England football fans were branded hooligans.

I don't think it's fair to tar all people with the same brush due to the actions of an ugly minority.

If you agree with that why do you or indeed the 60% have negative opinions about the majority of good people displaying their flag. Aren't you supporting the negativity?

It's like the stupidity that allows people to think all Muslims are terrorists. You are wary of a stranger with the flag on their roof in the same way others are wary of a Muslim with a rucksack on his back. It's nonsense and we need to fight against such negative stereotyping.

There you go again, I am not sterotying the English, or football fans.

I don't think it is fair to tar everyone with the same brush; I made it pretty clear that I thought the "two world wars" singers were in the minority these days.   

Roof man is an exception, and I have a negative view of him.   The original question could be answered yes, no or maybe, but would definitely be no for flag flyers during the World Cup and definitely yes for roof man.  Suspect his flag has blown away today anyway.  Sad times. 

Yah there I go again, not judging the character of a man by the colour of a flag on his roof

[Pokerpops]

 
 the butt of the jock.

 


It’s appropriate that that smiley is delivered by typing tightend 

[Doobs]

an interesting one

"Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of people flying or displaying the English flag at their home?"

% Favourable

Leavers 75%
Remainers 40%

Any details on who was polled for this?

I'm pretty sure a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish person would answer negatively to this question if they were included in the poll, but all could be classed under Leaver or Remainer as far as the referendum vote was concerned.

We have additional complexity with the way the various national flags are used in the UK, and the meanings aren't obviously clear without context.  The same people who'd happily display a Union Flag during the Olympics would potentially do something entirely different at a 6 Nations game or a World Cup (the 6 Nations having the further complication of there being a single Irish team).

I am pretty happy to see lots of England flags flown and on cars during the World cup, I am a bit more wary of somebody who has an England flag covering their roof in November.   I suspect if you split the question between roof man in November and flag wearer in the World Cup, you'd get a significantly different split of positives and negatives.

As I said before the GB flag has fewer negative connotations; I can't remember anyone launching into "Two World Wars and one World Cup" at the olympics and you see a lot more England flags when warm cuddly racists go out for one of their gentle strolls through English cities.

We had the same problem during the 80's where all England football fans were branded hooligans.

I don't think it's fair to tar all people with the same brush due to the actions of an ugly minority.

If you agree with that why do you or indeed the 60% have negative opinions about the majority of good people displaying their flag. Aren't you supporting the negativity?

It's like the stupidity that allows people to think all Muslims are terrorists. You are wary of a stranger with the flag on their roof in the same way others are wary of a Muslim with a rucksack on his back. It's nonsense and we need to fight against such negative stereotyping.

There you go again, I am not sterotying the English, or football fans.

I don't think it is fair to tar everyone with the same brush; I made it pretty clear that I thought the "two world wars" singers were in the minority these days.   

Roof man is an exception, and I have a negative view of him.   The original question could be answered yes, no or maybe, but would definitely be no for flag flyers during the World Cup and definitely yes for roof man.  Suspect his flag has blown away today anyway.  Sad times. 

Yah there I go again, not judging the character of a man by the colour of a flag on his roof

Judging someone by his actions is a little different than judging someone by the colour of his skin. 

When do you start getting wary of roof guy?  He has a flag as big covering most of his roof right now, assuming it hasn't blow away.  Hardly as common as someone with brown skin carrying a rucksack is it?   

You see that flag as a big as a roof, and just walk past that and think there is nothing unusual to see there.

If he sets a burning cross, you'd be thinking people have bonfires all the time?  Given you seem immune to Trump's excesses, dare say you'd be telling us there are good people who light burning crosses?  They are just dressing up as ghosts, see it was halloween recently?  Come on, where do you draw the line?   What does roof guy have to do before you get a bit wary of him?   

[nirvana]

 the butt of the jock.

Pretty good

[ripple11]

So where are we??  

May's deal surely gets rejected....so are we heading for a Norway style deal to get the majority of MP's on board?...or a Referendum?


Justine Greening on the radio this morning talking about her preferred referendum to take place on 30th May (at the earliest)

3 way question  remain; May’s deal; leaving without a deal.

You have a second preference vote....which is called upon if no option gets over 50%.
 
Second choices are then distributed for those voters whose first choice was knocked out.

Given how project fear of no deal will be on full power....doesn't "leaving without a deal" come last?

[TightEnd]

Hard Brexiters not thinking straight, says Malcolm Rifkind: interview with prospect

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/malcolm-rifkind-boris-is-primarily-a-journalist-who-gives-more-attention-to-the-headlines

he must have a point, increasing the changes of a 2nd ref (they may win it but...) has to mean voting it down rather than working within it is a high risk strategy

[TightEnd]

Few things could better suit this present shambles than a debate between a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver and a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer

https://capx.co/labours-brexit-policy-impregnable-delusion-or-fathomless-cynicism/

[TightEnd]

"Theresa May doesn’t have the numbers to get her deal through Parliament.

Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t have the numbers to force an election.

Remainers don’t have the numbers for a referendum.

That means the only options left are renegotiate, or no-deal. Everything else is a sideshow."

[TightEnd]

this is amazing

(its one poll but..)

Tories Surge To 5% Lead Over Labour https://order-order.com/2018/11/30/tories-surge-5-lead-labour/

[TightEnd]

Flashback to two years ago. How IDS claimed the Brexit negotiation process would work.


Notice these pearls of 2016 Brexiteer wisdom:
1. We will stay in the single market
2. But we don't pay anything and dump FoM (CAKE!)
3. We don't have to negotiate if we don't want to.

Whole document in the attached link.

Not mentioned at all in the Executive Summary, as far as I can see:
1. Customs union
2. The Irish border

https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/core/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/160930-CSJJ4877_Brexit_essay_collection_0916_WEB.pdf

[TightEnd]

The House of Commons library has produced this, minus the scribbled bit

[TightEnd]

What happens next? The five Brexit scenarios

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/what-happens-next-five-brexit-scenarios/

[TightEnd]

Support for Theresa May's Brexit deal has risen, but only slowly. 27% of Brits now support the deal (up 12 on two weeks ago), but 45% still oppose the deal

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/30/public-support-theresa-mays-deal-has-increased-far