The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Cf]

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.

But if the Lib Dem’s get voted into power on the basis of the position then it becomes democratic.

All rather hypothetical anyway, but at what level of support would it become democratic to simply ignore the referendum result?
...

When you have a General Election - you ignore the General Election result you had previously - they're both democratic results though.

1. We know, when a GE is held, that it is a once every 4 or 5 years vote.
2. The result of the previous GE has already been acted on.
3. We don't ignore the previous result because we take into account the outcome in practical terms when we vote.

The referendum was presented as a one-off chance to make a decision that would have a long term impact. If the vote had been 52% Remain would we be being offered the chance of another go?

The last one wasn't. The next one probably won't.

[Longines]

In another example of how the EU wants to control the actions of member states the Irish Government is having to fight them in the courts to avoid collecting £14bn in taxes from Apple.


 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49724786

I'm not convinced that being on the side of Apple paying 0.005% tax is a good look.

[Longines]

I'm always amazed at how many people, in politics generally and also on this thread, from both sides of the fence are willing to be pretty categoric about what millions of other people think or why they voted the way they did.

Think I may have reached peak amazeballs today.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-agree-or-disagree-that-even-if-the-irish-backstop-was-removed-from-the-current-withdrawal-agreement-it-still-would-not-represent-what-leave-voters-wanted-when-they-voted-to-leave-in-2016/

[iDo you agree or disagree that, even if the Irish backstop was removed from the current Withdrawal Agreement, it still would not represent what Leave voters wanted when they voted to Leave in 2016?][/i]

[nirvana]

That is amazing, well, at least 28% gave the right answer. Wonder if you gave an option such as 'impossible to say' it might get a more meaningful result

[Pokerpops]

In another example of how the EU wants to control the actions of member states the Irish Government is having to fight them in the courts to avoid collecting £14bn in taxes from Apple.


 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49724786

I'm not convinced that being on the side of Apple paying 0.005% tax is a good look.

I'm not convinced that you have understood the point I was making. But for the record, Apple appear to make pretty substantial tax payments.

https://fortune.com/2017/10/31/trump-tax-reform-apple-multinational-companies/

[TightEnd]

A big catch up, been flat to the boards all week

Did watch one day of the Supreme court. Compelling viewing. Enjoyed watching some different types of advocacy. Anyone else watched any of it?

[TightEnd]

In general terms there is more of a suggestion that a deal is in the offing for Oct31. The EU wants us to leave too. Barnier especially leading this. Even seen a suggestion that the DUP are softening a bit.

Quite what this means for what a deal looks like, we don't know yet.

I suspect it might be May's deal with lipstick and different language, where the EU say "this is it, no more extensions", and MPs vote on the deal or no deal and it passes

[TightEnd]

These are so funny

Activate Susan!

[Cf]

A big catch up, been flat to the boards all week

Did watch one day of the Supreme court. Compelling viewing. Enjoyed watching some different types of advocacy. Anyone else watched any of it?

I had all of it on in the background at work.

I'll admit a bias but I thought Pannick and O'Neil came across as very strong and confident. The government lawyers on the other hand seemed like they wanted to be anywhere but where they were.

The amount of talk at the end about potential remedies was quite telling. Verdict is going to be interesting.

[TightEnd]

Taking these in chronological order from when i saw them

EU given Brexit draft with backstop scrubbed out, UK sources admit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/17/eu-given-brexit-draft-with-backstop-scrubbed-out-uk-sources-admit

a bit of brinkmanship, wait til last minute

[TightEnd]

Great scoop via Pickard⁩ who got his hands on leaked Transport Dept docs suggesting govt’s Op Yellowhammer report on ports underplayed potential chaos.

DfT spells out that tailbacks outside Dover could stretch to around 150km

https://www.ft.com/content/0a37d14c-d887-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

[TightEnd]

According to the Institute of Directors, about 1/3rd plan to relocate their businesses after Brexit

A third!

a long thread by Faisal Islam takes us through the IOD survey

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1173700895336521731?s=20

[TightEnd]

Juncker met Boris

"Juncker told his commissioners that Boris Johnson only really "understood what the single market means" in the Luxembourg lunch. EU officials wondering whether PM actually grasps what it means to replace the backstop."

The FT's Brussels briefing had more

[TightEnd]

“At that point, a befuddled Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you're telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?” 

[TightEnd]

we like tortuous analogies on here

This was seen when referring to the "No deal that is done will be good enough" crew that is prevalent in some Leaver (Brexit Party/ERG) views

"You wait decades for a brand new kitchen. You finally get it. But the oven is not quite right. Do you accept the kitchen with room for improvement. Or do you rip the whole thing out & have no kitchen? I'd rip it out, said the Leaver".