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EvilPie
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« Reply #1650 on: December 05, 2016, 01:29:02 AM »

Tough first week back after my holiday. My shoulder still isn't right and to make it worse I've got a bit of a cold. Feeling proper under it atm Cheesy

I've managed three sessions although I've not troubled the scorers on anything. Stuck with high reps, low weight although still managed to hit 100kg on bench which was nice.

DL 100kg x 10 and squats 80kg x 10. Didn't even attempt OHP as I need to get my shoulder back slowly.

Hopefully be in there tomorrow morning if I feel okay when I wake up. See how that goes....
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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
EvilPie
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« Reply #1651 on: December 05, 2016, 01:31:08 AM »

Good few days of training, but feeling so hungry so eating much more. Probably 500-100KCALs more a day over the last few days. Will definitely monitor it. Weighed in today at 91.4kg. Don't want to go too far over 90 as at that weight I can diet down pretty well in 6-8 weeks.

May have to throw in a few more sessions and even some walks over Xmas. Possibly even some intermittent fasting to keep things balanced.

Fasting? Really?

Are we talking full on day off from eating or just cutting to like 1000 calories?

Fasting doesn't sound a good way of balancing to me. Having a balanced diet would be much more sensible.

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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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« Reply #1652 on: December 05, 2016, 01:33:40 AM »

Good few days of training, but feeling so hungry so eating much more. Probably 500-100KCALs more a day over the last few days. Will definitely monitor it. Weighed in today at 91.4kg. Don't want to go too far over 90 as at that weight I can diet down pretty well in 6-8 weeks.

May have to throw in a few more sessions and even some walks over Xmas. Possibly even some intermittent fasting to keep things balanced.

Have you ever looked at "musclefoods"? I've just placed my first order with them so will report if you haven't.

They seem to have some great products like the 30g protein per slice bread for example. I hav a feelingthat's going to be a workout in itself jus chewing trough that bad boy!

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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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« Reply #1653 on: December 05, 2016, 02:27:50 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #1654 on: December 05, 2016, 09:26:24 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

It's great that you've finally realised that it's not easy. You see these big muscular guys in the gym and often wonder why you don't look the same as them because you're there at the same time doing the same type of lifts. Well here's the thing, they work really f***ing hard at it 7 days a week, pretty much 24hrs a day.

The biggest thing you need to realise is that it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort and that the gym part is just the tip of the iceberg. Nutrition is by far the most important aspect followed by rest/recuperation followed by training.

What are your plans with your nutrition? Are you looking for a sustainable meal plan that will steadily see you make gains or a more drastic approach like bulking/dieting? I personally hate the way Harvey and many others do it with the constant cycling of loads of calories followed by working to a deficit to try to trim the excess fat. To me it just makes zero sense.

Cut out the shit five days a week and focus on high protein, low fat/carb and you can't really go wrong. If you aim for 1.5g of protein per lb bodyweight from lean food types then the calories will take care of themselves. You'll need supplements to avoid a constant day of eating but that's what it takes to get big without getting fat.

Don't get me wrong if it's pure strength you're after then sure go for the calories but if as I suspect you're looking to improve your physique then protein is king.

One more thing. Don't wait 'til 2017. Start today!!
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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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« Reply #1655 on: December 05, 2016, 10:26:48 AM »

Good few days of training, but feeling so hungry so eating much more. Probably 500-100KCALs more a day over the last few days. Will definitely monitor it. Weighed in today at 91.4kg. Don't want to go too far over 90 as at that weight I can diet down pretty well in 6-8 weeks.

May have to throw in a few more sessions and even some walks over Xmas. Possibly even some intermittent fasting to keep things balanced.

Fasting? Really?

Are we talking full on day off from eating or just cutting to like 1000 calories?

Fasting doesn't sound a good way of balancing to me. Having a balanced diet would be much more sensible.



Still eating the same KCALs, just eating them in more of a 'window'. Basically, just trying not to eat until around 11am or 12 if I can do it. I did this when I dieted last. I am never too hungry in the morning, so it seems a waste to eat for the sake of it. I can't do this all the time, because if I am hungry I am going to eat. My diet stays pretty much exactly the same though in terms of whats in it. I just change the timings to try and limit my hunger.

Intermittent fasting seems to be on the rise again at the minute.
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iRaise
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« Reply #1656 on: December 05, 2016, 10:29:27 AM »

Good few days of training, but feeling so hungry so eating much more. Probably 500-100KCALs more a day over the last few days. Will definitely monitor it. Weighed in today at 91.4kg. Don't want to go too far over 90 as at that weight I can diet down pretty well in 6-8 weeks.

May have to throw in a few more sessions and even some walks over Xmas. Possibly even some intermittent fasting to keep things balanced.

Have you ever looked at "musclefoods"? I've just placed my first order with them so will report if you haven't.

They seem to have some great products like the 30g protein per slice bread for example. I hav a feelingthat's going to be a workout in itself jus chewing trough that bad boy!



I have indeed. Pretty amazing for the range of stuff you get from there. They pretty much have protein anything. To be honest I don't think I have ever heard a bad review of them! I have never used them as my local butcher gives me a pretty good deal on chicken, but I would be shocked if I didn't use them in the future. Mainly just for the variety in meats. My protein is never really low enough to need the boost from protein X, but will definitely try them at some point just to see. I have heard good things about the protein crisps.
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iRaise
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« Reply #1657 on: December 05, 2016, 10:38:37 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

There is nothing wrong with adding some curls in at the end, literally everyone I know does this. Even the WSM guys are now doing it. But definitely want 30-45 mins of big compound movements.

I do think it took me 2-3 years to see the aesthetic progress, albeit I trained for strength from the start (shouldn't have much different to be honest as its still a big stimulus for a beginner). But you should see enough overall growth from the big 5. DL, Squat, Bench, OHP, Chin.

Food is key though, you need to consume a crazy amount of KCALs. Fast food isn't the worst, but if you eat one and then don't eat anything else for the day for being guilty, you aren't eating healthy and you aren't eating enough to gain any mass. So its the worst of both worlds. There is nothing wrong when you are trying to add mass to get in some calorie dense foods. Just eat more than you need so you can actually gain. Adding veg never a bad idea!

Stay consistent, and you cannot go wrong. But don't beat yourself up when things do. Life will always get in the way at times.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #1658 on: December 05, 2016, 10:51:06 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

There is nothing wrong with adding some curls in at the end, literally everyone I know does this. Even the WSM guys are now doing it. But definitely want 30-45 mins of big compound movements.

I do think it took me 2-3 years to see the aesthetic progress, albeit I trained for strength from the start (shouldn't have much different to be honest as its still a big stimulus for a beginner). But you should see enough overall growth from the big 5. DL, Squat, Bench, OHP, Chin.

Food is key though, you need to consume a crazy amount of KCALs. Fast food isn't the worst, but if you eat one and then don't eat anything else for the day for being guilty, you aren't eating healthy and you aren't eating enough to gain any mass. So its the worst of both worlds. There is nothing wrong when you are trying to add mass to get in some calorie dense foods. Just eat more than you need so you can actually gain. Adding veg never a bad idea!

Stay consistent, and you cannot go wrong. But don't beat yourself up when things do. Life will always get in the way at times.

Agree 100% with this. Eating shit is better than eating nothing but just try not to do it too often. Every now and then you'll find that you're hungry and all you can lay your hands on is a sausage roll or a petrol station meal deal. Don't beat yourself up, just get the food down you and then put it behind you and forget it ever happened. Just try to get something with a about 30g of protein if you can and stick to water for the drink. That's always worked for me.

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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
iRaise
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« Reply #1659 on: December 05, 2016, 11:07:20 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

It's great that you've finally realised that it's not easy. You see these big muscular guys in the gym and often wonder why you don't look the same as them because you're there at the same time doing the same type of lifts. Well here's the thing, they work really f***ing hard at it 7 days a week, pretty much 24hrs a day.

The biggest thing you need to realise is that it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort and that the gym part is just the tip of the iceberg. Nutrition is by far the most important aspect followed by rest/recuperation followed by training.

What are your plans with your nutrition? Are you looking for a sustainable meal plan that will steadily see you make gains or a more drastic approach like bulking/dieting? I personally hate the way Harvey and many others do it with the constant cycling of loads of calories followed by working to a deficit to try to trim the excess fat. To me it just makes zero sense.

Cut out the shit five days a week and focus on high protein, low fat/carb and you can't really go wrong. If you aim for 1.5g of protein per lb bodyweight from lean food types then the calories will take care of themselves. You'll need supplements to avoid a constant day of eating but that's what it takes to get big without getting fat.

Don't get me wrong if it's pure strength you're after then sure go for the calories but if as I suspect you're looking to improve your physique then protein is king.

One more thing. Don't wait 'til 2017. Start today!!


If you are going to bulk you will always gain an amount of fat. Depending on how many KCALs you have depends on how much you put on. Calories are still king for physique goals.

We all cycle calories though no? If you eat the shit then cut it out, thats cycling calories? The only difference is one is tracking the KCALs the other isn't. But whether you are tracking or aren't, you have to be controlling calories to lose fat (unless you SIGNIFICANTLY ramp up exercise).

Supplements will cause you to gain fat if they are misused too, right? If you are having a gainer shake of 1000+KCALs a day if that takes you over your maintenance, why would that not cause fat gain? 1000KCALs of gainer shake and 1000KCALs of ice cream? Gainer shake probably has 60-80g or protein in that, so 250KCALs then the rest is all carbs and fats. Ice cream has maybe 20g of protein in that so 80KCALs and 900KCALs of carbs and fats. So whats the difference between a gainer shake or ice cream plus a chicken breast?

Adding to that, as this time of the year it is SO important to clarify this as so many will fall to it. Why would we want supplements as opposed to food? Why would we want to drink our KCALs not eat them?

Also, it is tough to compare yourself to the guys that really are on it. There are people that focus on it 24/7. But 99% of them that's all they do. There is a 1% that can do all that, work hard professionally and have a social life. But they are the genetic freaks. Most of us will always have to prioritise, and to compare yourself to the local bodybuilder is really tough. The guy in our gym works 10-15 hours a week as a porter (as he doesn't want to 'let it affect his passion', has two kids he isn't allowed to see, lives in his brothers spare room, and has just come out of knee surgery. Looks a beast though!
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iRaise
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« Reply #1660 on: December 05, 2016, 11:16:24 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

There is nothing wrong with adding some curls in at the end, literally everyone I know does this. Even the WSM guys are now doing it. But definitely want 30-45 mins of big compound movements.

I do think it took me 2-3 years to see the aesthetic progress, albeit I trained for strength from the start (shouldn't have much different to be honest as its still a big stimulus for a beginner). But you should see enough overall growth from the big 5. DL, Squat, Bench, OHP, Chin.

Food is key though, you need to consume a crazy amount of KCALs. Fast food isn't the worst, but if you eat one and then don't eat anything else for the day for being guilty, you aren't eating healthy and you aren't eating enough to gain any mass. So its the worst of both worlds. There is nothing wrong when you are trying to add mass to get in some calorie dense foods. Just eat more than you need so you can actually gain. Adding veg never a bad idea!

Stay consistent, and you cannot go wrong. But don't beat yourself up when things do. Life will always get in the way at times.

Agree 100% with this. Eating shit is better than eating nothing but just try not to do it too often. Every now and then you'll find that you're hungry and all you can lay your hands on is a sausage roll or a petrol station meal deal. Don't beat yourself up, just get the food down you and then put it behind you and forget it ever happened. Just try to get something with a about 30g of protein if you can and stick to water for the drink. That's always worked for me.



That is actually something we agree on nutritionally. Prep always key for this though. IF we can limit the times we have to hit the petrol station because we haven't got any other option, it will only allow more progress. I dont really see the point in McDonalds because its not even like its a social aspect. You just hammer the drive thru and sit in the car. Just seems a lack of prep. If you are going out for a curry or something with friends, I see the logic there much more. Seems far more justifiable. McDonalds etc just feels like self sabotage.
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« Reply #1661 on: December 05, 2016, 11:30:23 AM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

Hey mtb, good to see you planning to get back on it and knowing what you need to do.
Absolutely no point dwelling on past, gets you nowhere. What you can be certain of though is that the training wont have been wasted. Muscle memory will mean you get back to where you were quicker than it took the first time.
Also, lifting and especially compounds, drain the body of energy. If you need extra calories because you are hungry, have them. Just try to make it a higher quality of food you are taking in.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #1662 on: December 05, 2016, 03:41:03 PM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

It's great that you've finally realised that it's not easy. You see these big muscular guys in the gym and often wonder why you don't look the same as them because you're there at the same time doing the same type of lifts. Well here's the thing, they work really f***ing hard at it 7 days a week, pretty much 24hrs a day.

The biggest thing you need to realise is that it takes a hell of a lot of time and effort and that the gym part is just the tip of the iceberg. Nutrition is by far the most important aspect followed by rest/recuperation followed by training.

What are your plans with your nutrition? Are you looking for a sustainable meal plan that will steadily see you make gains or a more drastic approach like bulking/dieting? I personally hate the way Harvey and many others do it with the constant cycling of loads of calories followed by working to a deficit to try to trim the excess fat. To me it just makes zero sense.

Cut out the shit five days a week and focus on high protein, low fat/carb and you can't really go wrong. If you aim for 1.5g of protein per lb bodyweight from lean food types then the calories will take care of themselves. You'll need supplements to avoid a constant day of eating but that's what it takes to get big without getting fat.

Don't get me wrong if it's pure strength you're after then sure go for the calories but if as I suspect you're looking to improve your physique then protein is king.

One more thing. Don't wait 'til 2017. Start today!!


If you are going to bulk you will always gain an amount of fat. Depending on how many KCALs you have depends on how much you put on. Calories are still king for physique goals.

We all cycle calories though no? If you eat the shit then cut it out, thats cycling calories? The only difference is one is tracking the KCALs the other isn't. But whether you are tracking or aren't, you have to be controlling calories to lose fat (unless you SIGNIFICANTLY ramp up exercise).

Supplements will cause you to gain fat if they are misused too, right? If you are having a gainer shake of 1000+KCALs a day if that takes you over your maintenance, why would that not cause fat gain? 1000KCALs of gainer shake and 1000KCALs of ice cream? Gainer shake probably has 60-80g or protein in that, so 250KCALs then the rest is all carbs and fats. Ice cream has maybe 20g of protein in that so 80KCALs and 900KCALs of carbs and fats. So whats the difference between a gainer shake or ice cream plus a chicken breast?

Adding to that, as this time of the year it is SO important to clarify this as so many will fall to it. Why would we want supplements as opposed to food? Why would we want to drink our KCALs not eat them?

Also, it is tough to compare yourself to the guys that really are on it. There are people that focus on it 24/7. But 99% of them that's all they do. There is a 1% that can do all that, work hard professionally and have a social life. But they are the genetic freaks. Most of us will always have to prioritise, and to compare yourself to the local bodybuilder is really tough. The guy in our gym works 10-15 hours a week as a porter (as he doesn't want to 'let it affect his passion', has two kids he isn't allowed to see, lives in his brothers spare room, and has just come out of knee surgery. Looks a beast though!

How can calories possibly be king for physique goals? I used to consume approximately 5500 calories per day to maintain a 16st 10lb lean physique. I never used to actually count the calories though, I'd just make sure that I consumed around 330g of protein and a by product of that was that my calories happened to be about 5500. I know 100% that if I got my protein from different sources my physique would have been very different. If I just ate ice cream then my 330g of protein would probably be about 15000 calories so I'd have been fat. If I'd just eaten 10 chicken fillets a day I'd have had no energy and died. The key is to get that protein from the right source. Calories may well be king when it comes to gaining weight but if you want that weight to take on a particular shape then you need to make sure those calories come from the correct sources.

We don't all cycle calories no. Believe it or not we don't all eat shit and then have to deliberately cut out the shit to offset the damage it caused. I never used to count calories. All I was concerned with was getting that 1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight. I made sure it came from lean sources and then the calories just take care of themselves.

When I talk about supplements I'm not talking about gainer shakes. I'm talking about using supplements to get extra protein, not extra calories. There are supplements which can provide 70g of protein without 1000kcals. I'm talking hi protein, low carb/fat, you're talking about gainer shakes. They're completely different. The one I regularly use has 70g of protein per 370kcals and I know there are many that are even leaner. The mass building version from the same brand has 800kcals for 70g of protein so I don't use that the same as I wouldn't use a tub of ice cream and a slab of chicken.

I never said to have supplements instead of food. A supplement should do exactly what it says on the tin, SUPPLEMENT...... You eat 4 times per day and then supplement in between to bring your protein intake up to the level you want without blasting too many calories. You don't eat ice cream, you don't eat gainer shakes, you don't eat sausage rolls and you can 100% gain muscle without gaining fat. I know it's true because I did it. I also did it without being a genetic freak.

Perhaps I was one of those guys that are 'really on it' so shouldn't be comparing my past self to myself now. All I'm saying is it can 100% be done and it's not difficult, you just have to want to do it.

Maybe you could try it? I'll give you my old diet plan and you can see what it does for you. Worked wonders for me and I'm pretty sure back then I wasn't training as hard as you do now.
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« Reply #1663 on: December 05, 2016, 04:34:06 PM »

I've had time to think about how i'm going to approach things in 2017.

Despite hitting the gym frequently enough overall i feel like I wasted my time this year. I took far too many days off, was lazy with ensuring i got the required calories in and def didn't get enough sleep. Critically I had waaaaay too much fast food, too many fizzy drinks, not enough veggies etc...and as a result my progress was basically non-existent with both size and strength. I maintained, but i've also probably lost that now given i haven't done anything for 8 weeks.

Travelling and talking to various people was a bit of an epiphany that these incredible physiques take some serious hard work to achieve. There will of course be people who are genetically predisposed at this shit but it is rare that there is a shortcut for commitment it takes, often over several years. I was naive to think that i could go to the gym frequently enough over a year and automatically see progress. Me more than anyone if i'm going to do this i need to do it properly. My body especially can afford the least mistakes or shortcuts.

The first thing i'm going to do when back is scrap the isolation movements at least for now. Back to 5x5 doing the 5 compound movements of bench, squat, deadlift, ohp and barbell rows and will focus on getting my numbers up rather than my biceps swelling, seeing the latter as a pleasant extra instead. I absolutely refuse to quit, and i hope that the lessons i learnt can make 2017 a much more productive year.

There is nothing wrong with adding some curls in at the end, literally everyone I know does this. Even the WSM guys are now doing it. But definitely want 30-45 mins of big compound movements.

I do think it took me 2-3 years to see the aesthetic progress, albeit I trained for strength from the start (shouldn't have much different to be honest as its still a big stimulus for a beginner). But you should see enough overall growth from the big 5. DL, Squat, Bench, OHP, Chin.

Food is key though, you need to consume a crazy amount of KCALs. Fast food isn't the worst, but if you eat one and then don't eat anything else for the day for being guilty, you aren't eating healthy and you aren't eating enough to gain any mass. So its the worst of both worlds. There is nothing wrong when you are trying to add mass to get in some calorie dense foods. Just eat more than you need so you can actually gain. Adding veg never a bad idea!

Stay consistent, and you cannot go wrong. But don't beat yourself up when things do. Life will always get in the way at times.

Agree 100% with this. Eating shit is better than eating nothing but just try not to do it too often. Every now and then you'll find that you're hungry and all you can lay your hands on is a sausage roll or a petrol station meal deal. Don't beat yourself up, just get the food down you and then put it behind you and forget it ever happened. Just try to get something with a about 30g of protein if you can and stick to water for the drink. That's always worked for me.



That is actually something we agree on nutritionally. Prep always key for this though. IF we can limit the times we have to hit the petrol station because we haven't got any other option, it will only allow more progress. I dont really see the point in McDonalds because its not even like its a social aspect. You just hammer the drive thru and sit in the car. Just seems a lack of prep. If you are going out for a curry or something with friends, I see the logic there much more. Seems far more justifiable. McDonalds etc just feels like self sabotage.

It's actually one of the key areas where supplements can help. Always keep a few protein bars with you and some meal replacement shakes then you'll never need to miss a protein hit again.

I use a MR shake that has 255kcals, 42g protein, 18g carbs and 2g fat. I have one per day after training to keep me going to my mid morning meal and I'll also take one with me to work if I have a meeting that may cause issues with timings for lunch. I'd always prefer to have my tuna but if I can't then the MR will suffice.

Other supplements I keep handy are flapjacks which are 287kcals, 18g protein, 38g carbs & 7g fat and also protein bars which are 258kcals, 23g protein, 29g carbs and 6g fat.

Dependent on what else I've eaten that day I'll select the one that's most appropriate. If I feel I'm a bit low on carbs I'll have the flapjack for example. I've learnt this through doing it for years so I just kind of know where I'm at each day.
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« Reply #1664 on: December 05, 2016, 04:44:54 PM »

Good few days of training, but feeling so hungry so eating much more. Probably 500-100KCALs more a day over the last few days. Will definitely monitor it. Weighed in today at 91.4kg. Don't want to go too far over 90 as at that weight I can diet down pretty well in 6-8 weeks.

May have to throw in a few more sessions and even some walks over Xmas. Possibly even some intermittent fasting to keep things balanced.

Fasting? Really?

Are we talking full on day off from eating or just cutting to like 1000 calories?

Fasting doesn't sound a good way of balancing to me. Having a balanced diet would be much more sensible.



Still eating the same KCALs, just eating them in more of a 'window'. Basically, just trying not to eat until around 11am or 12 if I can do it. I did this when I dieted last. I am never too hungry in the morning, so it seems a waste to eat for the sake of it. I can't do this all the time, because if I am hungry I am going to eat. My diet stays pretty much exactly the same though in terms of whats in it. I just change the timings to try and limit my hunger.

Intermittent fasting seems to be on the rise again at the minute.

It's not a waste to eat. You eat to provide your muscles with the fuel that they need to grow. This would be a great time to flick in a low calorie high protein shake. You don't need to satiate your hunger but a protein hit wouldn't go a miss to fuel your muscles. You can get 42g of protein from one of the 255kcal shakes I mentioned and then just cut out 255kcals somewhere later in the day from one of your shit sources such as ice cream.

I can't believe that someone who's so against Ant's vegan, nuts and plants diet would give a moments thought to something which is enough of a fad to be able to be described as 'on the rise again at the minute'...... Perhaps I'm being levelled?

I'm pretty sure that intermittent fasting isn't on the rise with any bodybuilder or strongman anywhere on the planet. Are those not your goals anymore?

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Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
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