Re-Entry and Late Reg - Your Views please?

[robyong]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
 b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

Thanks for your feedback.

Few Points.

1. Min Cash - very hard to get to min cash X 3 and pay the big 1st prize players demand, I dont know anywhere that pays min cash x 3
2. I agree hat 10% of entries is fine for a re-entry tournamant, we paid 10% of unqiue entries once and players went crazy at Simon
3. In completely disagree with you that it's not fair to include seats in prizepools, when it clearly advertised that way, players have a choice before they enter, whether we continue with that I am not sure, perhaps we should so all seats online. I can tell you players are 50:50 on this, we have ran comps without seats on prizepool and we get asked to add them back. I would say we have added £500,000 of free seats in 2015, we can GTE less with no seats, no big deal to me.
4.This myth about tournament players spending money on casino, food and drink, is a myth. Tournament players have the lowest average spend per head of all DTD customers except when we do major festivals - We lose money on every tournament players less than £330 buy-in, i.e, DTD and the Major festival players are subsiding these players. This is something I have been happy to do for years despite the moaning I get.
KTF

Rob

[bigjay]

No problem at all with late reg , what really puts me on tilt is the moneybags who sits tanking then goes "I feel like gambling cause I can always rebuy "

[robyong]

No problem at all with late reg , what really puts me on tilt is the moneybags who sits tanking then goes "I feel like gambling cause I can always rebuy "

I am 99.999% sure we wont be doing any re-entry tournaments the same day at DTD. I think the DTD Team all want to go in a different direction.

[UgotNuts]

Hi Rob,

Quick question- This XXL 30+5 tournament with 2 reloads, is this basically a triple stack comp or do you need to pay an extra 30 quid to reload? Or have the website not been updated to show the tournament's are now freeze outs?

Thanks,

Shane

[shmeigle]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
 b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

Thanks for your feedback.

Few Points.

1. Min Cash - very hard to get to min cash X 3 and pay the big 1st prize players demand, I dont know anywhere that pays min cash x 3 I recently played the goliath. I disagreed with their payout structure and spent a lot of time and effort on working out a payout model I thought was better which I forwarded to them. I'm happy to email that spread sheet to you if you would like to see it. also the fact that no-where else does it shouldn't qualify it as a bad idea. 

2. I agree hat 10% of entries is fine for a re-entry tournamant, we paid 10% of unqiue entries once and players went crazy at SimonI think the truth is its impossible to please everyone. all my suggestions were my personal thoughts on the matter. some would agree and some wouldnt

3. In completely disagree with you that it's not fair to include seats in prizepools, when it clearly advertised that way, players have a choice before they enter, whether we continue with that I am not sure, perhaps we should so all seats online. I can tell you players are 50:50 on this, we have ran comps without seats on prizepool and we get asked to add them back. I would say we have added £500,000 of free seats in 2015, we can GTE less with no seats, no big deal to me.yes I know it is clearly advertised. that's not disputed. neither am I under the illusion that all guarantees are met. I think I was very clear and specific that if guarantees are not met it is fair to add the money in as seats into future games but only in this instance. as you say, its advertised and players have a choice. I choose to not play often/much because of this. the question is how many others feel similarly to me? 

4.This myth about tournament players spending money on casino, food and drink, is a myth. Tournament players have the lowest average spend per head of all DTD customers except when we do major festivals - We lose money on every tournament players less than £330 buy-in, i.e, DTD, and the Major festival players are subsiding these players. This is something I have been happy to do for years despite the moaning I get.
KTF

Rob

I have read about the recent changes, and whilst its a step in the right direction, for me personally, the changes affect the things I care the least about. the main things I do care about are as yet still not to my liking. 

[Rexas]

As a side note the cash game scene appears to be booming at the moment, hats off to Will etc for all they've done to sort this out. Fantastically run, can't think of anything I'd do differently.

[vegaslover]

I Think Rob should change tact and just do what he thinks is best for his business. Everything he tries, usually at significant cost, always has a polarised view from poker players who can't help but constantly moan.

[EvilPie]

Hope all u re entry haters support Dtd next week

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=524

I supported them this week and there was a re-entry!!

Frustrating to say the least.

[George2Loose]

Re entry in what?

[Karabiner]

Re entry in what?

In a freezeout.

[EvilPie]

Re entry in what?

Last night's 8-max

http://www.dusktilldawncasinonottingham.com/result-info.php?id=5308&name=8-max-high-roller&eid=67721

Definitely says freezeout.

[cambridgealex]

Re entry in what?

Last night's 8-max

http://www.dusktilldawncasinonottingham.com/result-info.php?id=5308&name=8-max-high-roller&eid=67721

Definitely says freezeout.

You still cashed

And it was only Fred that re-entered and that's just dead money in the prizepool anyway...

[FredW]

Re entry in what?

Last night's 8-max

http://www.dusktilldawncasinonottingham.com/result-info.php?id=5308&name=8-max-high-roller&eid=67721

Definitely says freezeout.

You still cashed

And it was only Fred that re-entered and that's just dead money in the prizepool anyway...

Always happy to contribute.

[Alonso]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
 b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

Thanks for your feedback.

Few Points.

1. Min Cash - very hard to get to min cash X 3 and pay the big 1st prize players demand, I dont know anywhere that pays min cash x 3 I recently played the goliath. I disagreed with their payout structure and spent a lot of time and effort on working out a payout model I thought was better which I forwarded to them. I'm happy to email that spread sheet to you if you would like to see it. also the fact that no-where else does it shouldn't qualify it as a bad idea. 

2. I agree hat 10% of entries is fine for a re-entry tournamant, we paid 10% of unqiue entries once and players went crazy at SimonI think the truth is its impossible to please everyone. all my suggestions were my personal thoughts on the matter. some would agree and some wouldnt

3. In completely disagree with you that it's not fair to include seats in prizepools, when it clearly advertised that way, players have a choice before they enter, whether we continue with that I am not sure, perhaps we should so all seats online. I can tell you players are 50:50 on this, we have ran comps without seats on prizepool and we get asked to add them back. I would say we have added £500,000 of free seats in 2015, we can GTE less with no seats, no big deal to me.yes I know it is clearly advertised. that's not disputed. neither am I under the illusion that all guarantees are met. I think I was very clear and specific that if guarantees are not met it is fair to add the money in as seats into future games but only in this instance. as you say, its advertised and players have a choice. I choose to not play often/much because of this. the question is how many others feel similarly to me? 

4.This myth about tournament players spending money on casino, food and drink, is a myth. Tournament players have the lowest average spend per head of all DTD customers except when we do major festivals - We lose money on every tournament players less than £330 buy-in, i.e, DTD, and the Major festival players are subsiding these players. This is something I have been happy to do for years despite the moaning I get.
KTF

Rob

I have read about the recent changes, and whilst its a step in the right direction, for me personally, the changes affect the things I care the least about. the main things I do care about are as yet still not to my liking. 

Fully agree with this guy. And especially about added seats. Now I know DTD argument about GTDs etc. My sulution for that is simple:

You are the business. If you cannot reach GTDs - don't offer them as big. I really doubt you will have significant difference in numbers if you advertise 850k gtd instead of 1million gtd. This added seats thing is absolutely ridiculous. In smaller comps it takes sometimes more than 20% of the prize pool!

Payout structure: well isn't it a time to start announcing payout structure before 'shuffle up and deal'? In other words it is very simple to have table with if you get X entrants, payouts will be ABCD. Not a rocket science at all. As know min cashes are terrible, and as somebody noticed 20k difference between 1st and 9th in pokerfest is just laughable. 


Overall changes are towards good direction but it looks too litle too late... I think Rob's reason were mentioned many times before original introduction of  those decisions to allow 'rebuy whatever amount of times' by many people including myself. I guess then more or less poker economy starts subtracting then people in charge of it starts thinking. But as I say sounds a bit too litle too late, as we hardly gonna have another Moneymaker moment anytime soon (or more like ever)....

[Gemini Kings]

There is no doubt DTD have been innovative over the years always willing to try new ideas. But from replies on here and from my own perspective I believe that the constant changes have cost the club players.

I used to be constantly checking up and coming tournaments at DTD but now find myself checking the site every few weeks or months. Yet I still look to play as many MTT's as possible but play elsewhere most of the time. My reasons are similar to previous entries on here.

I now dislike multiple re entries. They have changed the game and make tournaments more of a gamble then a skill game.
I used to like re entry MTT's and late reg. for the extra value they add to the prize pool but over recent years I have completely changed my opinion.

I dislike the 'added seats' in the prize pool. They detract from payouts and mean that you can go quite deep in a tournament but the payout does not seem to reflect how well a player has done to get that deep (if they don't make the added seats part of the payouts).

I echo many views on here that would prefer to see smaller more realistic guarantees rather than added seats and multiple re entries.

I dislike the 50k starting stack with blinds starting 100/200/25. This structure is not representative of all of the other main tours in the UK.

It's just my opinion for what ever it's worth but I would like to see DTD get back to very limited re entries or freeze outs and drop the 50k starting stack structure. ( this months Deep Stack structure looks great. 30k and most if not all levels back in).

Also a more constant schedule would renew my interest rather than the constant changes of the past few years.