Transition from UK Poker Pro to Letting Agency

[Goosey82]

Hey guys, been a member of this forum for about 6/7 years, always more of a lurker than a keen poster.  I do know alot of the older posters as I was an online pro for 8 years, regularly going to the live tourneys WSOP, CPC, Aussie Mills etc.

Anyway, I thought I would share my poker story with everyone and how I went from online pro to building a buy to let portfolio to setting up a letting agency.  I'm 31 now, live and work in Glasgow.  I started playing in 2007 online and in 2008 somehow luckboxed a seat to Jamie Gold Main Event in Vegas, I had never played live before then and I ended up coming 106th, Jeff Lisandro knocked me out, won $52k and came home cleared all my debt and stuck a chunk online for a "spin up" back in the good old days at Crypto playing  NL£100-£500 when win rates were huge. When Betfair moved to its own independent network I moved with them, continuing to play NL 6 max and camping out and HU tables which was the norm back then. Again I followed Betfair with its move to Ongame and played there as Goosey82, the games were tremendous and played up to $5/10 to $50/100 when there were some huge whales around ie YMERCH20 and JAndrew. Latterly Betfair moved to Ipoker I moved with them and have recently found myself playied £1/2 and some £2/4.  As everyone will know the games got alot tougher and I was struggling to maintain a decent winrate, despite putting in the hours so this time last year I decided to retire and pursue my other income stream which was property investing.

Throughout my poker career, I had always been a steady winner, I had some great days, some dreadful days but had 7 winning years in a row.  My investment strategy with my earning was to buy a 1-2 Buy to Let flats every year.  I always bought poorly conditioned properties, "flipped" them and then rented them out, back to poker, save another deposit buy another property and repeat.  7 years later, I had 14 Buy to Let properties in Glasgow, all cash flowing really well, offering significant ROI's and in areas I knew were popular with renters.   In the back of my mind when I finished playing this was the career that I was going to take up after I finished poker.  This time last year, I retired from poker, built a website, business cards etc and started up my own letting agency.  I already managed 3 properties for another UK based poker player who I was friends with from online and wanted me to do what I was doing for myself for him, so he bought 3, flipped them and rented them out under my management.  I also bought a flat with WellChief (whos been a pal of mine since long before poker and we came up playing the games together) and managed another one for him.  So I wasnt starting with no stock.  The first few months were about networking, getting my name out there, starting up a Facebook which drove quite a lot of business and since then I have been ticking away really well.  I set myself a target of two new managed properties per month and beat that comfortably, at the start of the year I moved into an office with an independent Estate Agent too, just 5 minutes from my house in the Southside of Glasgow.  Going forward, I am looking to continue to grow my own portfolio, grow my letting agency portfolio and starting to Buying to Flip.  I think there is loads of opportunities in Glasgow for me to do this so I am really just going to focus on the areas that I know.

Anyway, thanks for listening, thought it would be an interesting story to share, be happy to answer any questions if folk were interested, cheers Goosey/Billy545/Billy555/MGS84 or just Mark!

[EvilPie]

The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least


 

[AndrewT]

YMERCH20 was incredible - players would block tables in the lobby every day just on the off chance he'd turn up.

When he did he used to play a table of $50/$100 whilst punting £10k on literally every horse race going off.

[Marky147]

You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.

[Goosey82]

You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.

Hahah yes you are right, crikey I am more of a dinosaur than I thought, started 2005 and played the Main Event 2006!

[Goosey82]

YMERCH20 was incredible - players would block tables in the lobby every day just on the off chance he'd turn up.

When he did he used to play a table of $50/$100 whilst punting £10k on literally every horse race going off.

Think on PTR YMERCH was down over $1mill plus. I am pretty certain it was a forward that used to play for Ipswich/Newcastle....(speculation).  But yeh he was an absolute whale, remember I was a $5/10 reg at the time and spun up $70,000 at $50/100 and he had me covered and I had direct position, I was absolutely bricking it, but he dusted it all off in about 20 mins.

[Goosey82]

The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least


The stamp duty doesnt really affect me much for future investments, going forward most of the properties I am looking at are £70k-£100k, so the extra £2-£3k is just another expense I need to factor into my calculations.  The new tax rules are alot more concerning, but you are absolutely spot on, it doesnt really affect me at the moment as I am not a higher rate tax payer.  I own one in cash but all of my others have mortgages (using joint names with wife+ based off her salary) and they are Capital and Interest over 15-20years and I bought in a a good market so I am actually quite lowly geared, so again the tax changes wont have a great affect on me.  My advice to you would be to look for a minumum gross yield of 10%, which is available in Glasgow.  I am absolutely certain returns like that will be available in areas closer to you like Manchester, it is all about doing the research and homework on it.
 

[Marky147]

You've lost 2 years there somewhere, because Jamie Gold's M/E was 2006.

I only know, because I played it, too

Always good to see people doing well, so congrats, and all the best with it all.

Hahah yes you are right, crikey I am more of a dinosaur than I thought, started 2005 and played the Main Event 2006!

Doesn't seem like 10 years ago, that much I do know!

Good start to your diary anyway, and looking forward to following.

[EvilPie]

The buy to let market is something that I'm just moving in to myself having finally bought my first 12 full hours before the extra 3% stamp duty kicked in

The problem I have is that my local area isn't great on the roi front so I really need to look further afield for purchases and then obviously have someone like yourself manage it. Don't think I'd stray as far as Scotland though but I understand there's decent returns in the Manchester area which is only an hour from me.

How are the new tax rules going to affect you over the next few years? I assume it's a major kick in the teeth but at least you have a decent buffer before you hit the 40% bracket with your other income being from poker. I know for me it makes any house with a return of less than 5% pretty much pointless unless you can find a minimum 40% deposit. Saying that are you actually buying them cash so it doesn't matter?

Interesting stuff..... For me at least


The stamp duty doesnt really affect me much for future investments, going forward most of the properties I am looking at are £70k-£100k, so the extra £2-£3k is just another expense I need to factor into my calculations.  The new tax rules are alot more concerning, but you are absolutely spot on, it doesnt really affect me at the moment as I am not a higher rate tax payer.  I own one in cash but all of my others have mortgages (using joint names with wife+ based off her salary) and they are Capital and Interest over 15-20years and I bought in a a good market so I am actually quite lowly geared, so again the tax changes wont have a great affect on me.  My advice to you would be to look for a minumum gross yield of 10%, which is available in Glasgow.  I am absolutely certain returns like that will be available in areas closer to you like Manchester, it is all about doing the research and homework on it.
 

10%..... MBSFN!!

In Nottingham you're lucky to get 5% Maybe I should be looking in Scotland.....

My first one is actually pretty decent which is why I finally decided to take the plunge. I get £525 per month income and it cost me £100k so 6.3% gross. If I could get 10 more at that I'd be over the moon.

When the tax rules change though it's going to be a pig. Whilst my income stays at it's current level I'm going to be making nothing on the houses, just paying them off steadily over 15 years or so probably having to use some of my normal earnings to help chip away at the mortgages. I just have to remember that it's bad now but when I retire, all the mortgages are paid off and my rental income is over £5k per month it's actually an amazing pension.

Sounds like you've got it all sorted. Brilliant stuff and encouraging for me as a new starter in the game.

[Goosey82]

Yeh gross yields are really high in Glasgow. 3 unis, 16 colleges push the demand through the roof. Latest one I did for a landlord was bought for £55,000 we had 20 enquiries on it and 4 applications from first 5 viewers at £500pcm. Gross on that is roughly 11% and clearly could of squeezed more out of it! Net yield will be significantly lower after management,factors fees, maintenance,compliance with legislation though but still over the course of investment will provide an excellent return.

[arbboy]

Amazing story.  You ever play stts on betfair over the years?  Just cash?  I played identical years as you on all the betfair sites but was the stt rake machine and never played cash.  Assume you were the total opposite?

Not worried about interest rates rising/house prices correcting?  Assume this is a huge part of your net worth.

[Doobs]

Goosey and Well Chief were very much 2 of the better 2.5/5, 5/10 6 max players back in the day.  Wish I'd realised who Well Chief was when he was running deep in the WSOP. 

My favourite player back then was Tattoo.  I won twice as much from him than I did from anyone else.  I don't think I ever played ymerch.  Must have moved on to MTTS by then?  I did have one nemesis back then.  I can't remember his name, but he was Italian and just ran golden against me.  Never missed a river.  My poker tracker had him losing tens of thousands vs everyone else at the table, but he was well up vs me when he disappeared. 

Good luck to you

[celtic]

Should be interesting.

I'll get the important questions out the way.

Celtic or Rangers?

What do you have at nandos?

[celtic]

Also, I've moved it to the diary board.

[Goosey82]

Amazing story.  You ever play stts on betfair over the years?  Just cash?  I played identical years as you on all the betfair sites but was the stt rake machine and never played cash.  Assume you were the total opposite?

Not worried about interest rates rising/house prices correcting?  Assume this is a huge part of your net worth.

Thanks mate, never played any Stts unless I saw the Donk Roma sitting there waiting! I remember you always would win the points race along with Lee (can't remember screenname).

My portfolio is stress tested at 6% interest rates to still be positively cash flowing while paying the capital back. I guess if it goes any higher than that we are all in bother. As for house prices I am not too concerned as my investments are all made for long term over the course of rest of my life, fundamentally I believe house prices double every 15 years so I plan to ride out any short term variance!