Manchester Arena bombing

[EvilPie]

surely theres nothing to disagree with in that link i posted

In isolation it's fine but when you add a bit of background it's bollocks.

Do you think EDL marches should be banned and anyone attending them should be locked up or deported?

Those marches preach hate so if they can exist why can't the radical Islam marches exist? You can pick and choose which radical group you're going to let have their say.

[titaniumbean]

surely theres nothing to disagree with in that link i posted

In isolation it's fine but when you add a bit of background it's bollocks.

Do you think EDL marches should be banned and anyone attending them should be locked up or deported?

Those marches preach hate so if they can exist why can't the radical Islam marches exist? You can pick and choose which radical group you're going to let have their say.

 

[titaniumbean]

I felt this was a pretty important thread on twatter today -


https://twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar3/status/871829837262061568

[SuuPRlim]

surely theres nothing to disagree with in that link i posted

In isolation it's fine but when you add a bit of background it's bollocks.

Do you think EDL marches should be banned and anyone attending them should be locked up or deported?

Those marches preach hate so if they can exist why can't the radical Islam marches exist? You can pick and choose which radical group you're going to let have their say.

Very well put.

Everyone thinks its so easy, that security services are hugely failing us...they stop 90% of attacks from an invisible army made up of people who don't care about dying - how on earth do you fight against that?

[nirvana]

I felt this was a pretty important thread on twatter today -


https://twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar3/status/871829837262061568

Good read dat

[SuuPRlim]

Funnily enough, I've today watched this video of Tommy Robinson explaining to the oxford union how and why the EDL formed. I used to think of him as a BNP/NF/Nazi type idiot but it turns out he isn't at all. I'm sure many on here couldn't expand their mind 1mm past political correctness and watch it but it's very interesting and gives a different perspective of him. He has a huge heart and a massive pair of balls standing up for something he so strongly believes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvUXxw_USGs

I watched the whole video. Afterwards I watched the Q&A with Tommy Robinson...really shows a different side to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UAQAvCCC4

[nirvana]

Funnily enough, I've today watched this video of Tommy Robinson explaining to the oxford union how and why the EDL formed. I used to think of him as a BNP/NF/Nazi type idiot but it turns out he isn't at all. I'm sure many on here couldn't expand their mind 1mm past political correctness and watch it but it's very interesting and gives a different perspective of him. He has a huge heart and a massive pair of balls standing up for something he so strongly believes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvUXxw_USGs

I watched the whole video. Afterwards I watched the Q&A with Tommy Robinson...really shows a different side to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-UAQAvCCC4

Watching him creates massive mixed feelings in me. There's unarguable truths, I think, in some of what he says.

I would be relatively confident that he is close to articulating a majority view in this country

[SuuPRlim]

When someone says something and it's hugely clear they really really believe in what they are saying then it makes then thoroughly convincing and very easy to relate to.

[nirvana]

When someone says something and it's hugely clear they really really believe in what they are saying then it makes then thoroughly convincing and very easy to relate to.

And that's, of course, where I get the mixed feelings though. I can identify with strands of 'truth' but the easy to relate to bit makes me want to double check my own thoughts as, I guess, history is littered with beguiling speakers with a version of truth that led to some pretty bad outcomes.

[titaniumbean]

people who are scared are alot easier to lead than people who are informed.....

[nirvana]

people who are scared are alot easier to lead than people who are informed.....

Yep, couldn't agree more - this is why I read/watch so much and probably the source of my utter fearlessness in the face of any threat.

[muckthenuts]

Any chance we're getting carried away here? I can think of 34 deaths at the hands of Islamic extremists in the UK since 2005. Between 2005 and 2014 4069 pedestrians were killed in RTA's, I don't have numbers after 2014. Shouldn't we be more concerned about finding a way to ensure people obey speed limits?

That is an interesting point tbf.

We're all statistically at far greater danger from cancer, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, RTA's etc which is arbitrary and accepted as part of our everyday lives. Terrorism OTOH hijacks the human fear response mainly because of the 24/7 coverage they receive in the aftermath of events.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many-people-killed-terrorist-attacks-uk/  

Terrorism is only effective if it does in fact instill terror. Us and the media talking about it all the time probably does play a role in sensationalising and doing a large part of the terrorists job for them.

[nirvana]

Any chance we're getting carried away here? I can think of 34 deaths at the hands of Islamic extremists in the UK since 2005. Between 2005 and 2014 4069 pedestrians were killed in RTA's, I don't have numbers after 2014. Shouldn't we be more concerned about finding a way to ensure people obey speed limits?

That is an interesting point tbf.

We're all statistically at far greater danger from cancer, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, RTA's etc which is arbitrary and accepted as part of our everyday lives. Terrorism OTOH hijacks the human fear response mainly because of the 24/7 coverage they receive in the aftermath of events.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many-people-killed-terrorist-attacks-uk/  

Terrorism is only effective if it does in fact instill terror. Us and the media talking about it all the time probably does play a role in sensationalising and doing a large part of the terrorists job for them.

Can't say I agree that comparisons with other ways we die make any kind of useful or interesting analogy or add any kind of perspective at all. If the point is that fear of being attacked is slightly irrational from a probability point of view then I would probably agree.

Comparison with total number of stranger murders in the UK might have some relevance, comparison with death rates inflicted by Islamic extremist groups in other countries might make some sense, comparison with RTAs or fast food murders - in person, I'd just roll my eyes, perhaps wag a finger.

[kukushkin88]

Any chance we're getting carried away here? I can think of 34 deaths at the hands of Islamic extremists in the UK since 2005. Between 2005 and 2014 4069 pedestrians were killed in RTA's, I don't have numbers after 2014. Shouldn't we be more concerned about finding a way to ensure people obey speed limits?

That is an interesting point tbf.

We're all statistically at far greater danger from cancer, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, RTA's etc which is arbitrary and accepted as part of our everyday lives. Terrorism OTOH hijacks the human fear response mainly because of the 24/7 coverage they receive in the aftermath of events.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many-people-killed-terrorist-attacks-uk/  

Terrorism is only effective if it does in fact instill terror. Us and the media talking about it all the time probably does play a role in sensationalising and doing a large part of the terrorists job for them.

Can't say I agree that comparisons with other ways we die make any kind of useful or interesting analogy or add any kind of perspective at all. If the point is that fear of being attacked is slightly irrational from a probability point of view then I would probably agree.

Comparison with total number of stranger murders in the UK might have some relevance, comparison with death rates inflicted by Islamic extremist groups in other countries might make some sense, comparison with RTAs or fast food murders - in person, I'd just roll my eyes, perhaps wag a finger.

They're not supposed to be analogous, I explained that in my first reply to Adz but I still think they help bring some perspective. People were talking about internment (now the PM has joined in) to respond to a threat that has killed 34 people. Potentially chucking out the most important part of our judicial process. Meanwhile we kill thousands more people by driving irresponsibly and there is a popular Clarksonesque type view that enforcement of speed limits is an infringement of people's freedoms. Anyway feels like an unnecessary distraction now and maybe it wasn't a great point I was making in the firs place anyway.

[titaniumbean]

fk me the cctv footage of the police responding to borough market is so intense.

the speed with which they have to respond is just incredible, they have done an absolutely amazing job. it's so easy to see why people just didn't have a chance.