Manchester Arena bombing

[TightEnd]

US leak of Manchester attacker's name strikes new blow to intelligence sharing

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/trump-administration-manchester-bomber-name-leak?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[TightEnd]

Click to see full-size image.

[RickBFA]

Did anyone hear Nicky Campbell on 5Live this morning?

He went up to a couple of young Muslim guys in Manchester yesterday to get their view - they believe this atrocity was actually done by the British Government.

I know a poker player in Sheffield, very nice guy, clearly very intelligent who believes the 9/11 killings were done by the CIA.

With these views within sections of what appear to be mainstream Muslims, you can see why a tiny minority are radicalised.

This is going to be an ongoing issue for decades.

In theory, changing our foreign policy, agreeing an education policy for children from all backgrounds might be part of the answer but its going to be 20-30 years plus away.

[DungBeetle]

just got to ban religion in this country and section any crazies that believe, easy

Had a similar discussion on Facebook a year ago, if you look at global historical atrocities and see what %  especially in modern days, are committed in the act of religion it's staggeringly low. 

If you were then to filter out the religious terrorist acts not genuinely committed for religious reasons you'd find the overall figure not even making a tiny percentage of a tiny percentage. Is just a metric for propaganda, if not religion then it would be something else.

Is easy to take for granted, but the freedom to believe, think, say and do what you want is one that is relatively new to us...to Just "ban" one of these freedoms would hugely disrespect the tens of millions of people who died for them.

What is the percentage out of interest and what are the categories?  Are the Crusades classed as religious atrocities for example?  ISIS?

[POWWWWWWWW]

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

[exstream]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808221/Manchester-terror-Home-Office-returning-Isis-fighters-arrested

surely not

[Doobs]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808221/Manchester-terror-Home-Office-returning-Isis-fighters-arrested

surely not

Surely both you and the Express can use google?   Even the Mail and Sun have managed to find a few people who have been arrested. 

And it seems absolutely obvious why they won't say who they are monitoring and why. 

[BigAdz]

The bit I don't understand is how these people are on watch lists and get the chance to commit these attrocities.

If they are on the watch list for

1, the people they mix with

2, the countries they visit

3, the views they openly express/web sites they visit and have been monitored doing so

then surely the intelligence services should be all over them?

How many times do we have to hear this story and the Minisiter for Whatever tell us about all the 13 other bomb plots they stopped since 2015?

It doesn't matter.

If you clear out every moron that looks like perpetraiting a religous crime, then we quickly rid ourselves of a massive number. I can't help getting really angry when I hear we have these people on watch lists, yet they get to a stage where they kill people.

For example, If I become a criminal or go to a banned country, and I am warned about my actions prior to taking them, then I expect to be forced to make certain compromises in my freedoms going forward.

We should now live in a society where it should come as no surprise to anyone caught preaching hate/going to Libya for terrorism school, or looking how to build a bomb websites, if you suddenly get locked up.

I guess that means I am not some liberal softie, but I am also sure it can be applied to whoever commits these crimes, regardless of whatever religion etc, and doesn't make me some form of racist(before anyone suggests it)

[aaron1867]

Awful, just awful.

But what I can not believe, is the fact that bags & bodies have not been checked. What on earth? Working in events myself, this is out main aim. You aren't getting into the nightclub without a body search & a bag check. This was exactly the same at the football last week with 32,000 fans. No check whatsoever.

If you take the attitude of "it'll never happen to us" with your security checks, then be rest assured, it will happen sooner rather than later.

He wasn't searched because he entered the venue after the performance had finished, when everyone was leaving.

Obvious tactic when you have hindsight, but aftertiming is easy now.

If you listen to the reports, people have said how lapse the security was. This included no bag or body checks.

It doesn't matter.

Have you ever been at any sort of event (apart from football matches to keep rival fans apart) with security after it has finished?

Was clearly targeted as a weak point of security at major events.

I've been to around 10 events at the arena in last year from boxing, to comedy, to concerts.  Searched every time and never saw a person not.

I can believe they didn't pat down children perhaps but severely doubt it was lax at the door. As Keith said. It's a weak spot.  Perhaps keep the dogs around after the show. Plus don't let people into foyer etc etc. Very hard to ever prevent this type of thing

Like I said, there are genuine and numerous reports that the security on the night was questionable and that searches didn't take place for everyone. If you let your guard down for one minute, then you are in trouble.

In addition to this, I went to to Hillsborough last week and no search, Wembley last year and the search was even more pathetic.

[AndrewT]

Of course security searches at venues are perfunctory at best - it's security theatre. They're mainly checking to see you're not smuggling in your own food and booze so the venue can gouge you once you're inside.

[Jon MW]

The bit I don't understand is how these people are on watch lists and get the chance to commit these attrocities.

If they are on the watch list for

1, the people they mix with

2, the countries they visit

3, the views they openly express/web sites they visit and have been monitored doing so

...

If people associate with known terrorists, go to areas of countries with terrorist training camps and express views like how to build bombs and anything else you probably mean by the third point then the security services will be all over them.

But that's not what all the people are on a watchlist for. They'll also be on there because they have also done only one of those three - then there'll be people who have some kind of association with any of the people who have done one or more of those three - including most of their family. There will also probably be people who know the people who know the people who have done at least one of the three.

Even if it there was enough money to spend the 100's of billions it would need to keep every single one of them under constant surveillance, there wouldn't be enough manpower - or, possibly most importantly, time to analyse all the data that would produce.

Unless you want to lock up several thousand people who have never committed any crime then the only way the intelligence services can act is to prioritise the people they know about - the plots they've stopped are when they've prioritised right. But you can't expect any system to never fail.

[Woodsey]

Of course security searches at venues are perfunctory at best - it's security theatre. They're mainly checking to see you're not smuggling in your own food and booze so the venue can gouge you once you're inside.

I smuggle booze into just about every sporting event and concert/show I go to, so they are even shit at that!

[PokerBroker]

Did anyone hear Nicky Campbell on 5Live this morning?

He went up to a couple of young Muslim guys in Manchester yesterday to get their view - they believe this atrocity was actually done by the British Government.

I know a poker player in Sheffield, very nice guy, clearly very intelligent who believes the 9/11 killings were done by the CIA.

With these views within sections of what appear to be mainstream Muslims, you can see why a tiny minority are radicalised.

This is going to be an ongoing issue for decades.

In theory, changing our foreign policy, agreeing an education policy for children from all backgrounds might be part of the answer but its going to be 20-30 years plus away.

TBF it's not like the state apparatus hasn't got its hands covered in blood you don't have to look to far into British securocrats who have run double agents or been involved in the murder of innocent civilians.

I am not saying that is what happened here but it has happened before and I am sure at the time people would have thought you were nuts for suggesting it was even a possibility..

[TightEnd]

An initial analysis of the Manchester blast indicates a bomb in which its shrapnel was carefully and evenly packed http://nyti.ms/2qXf4l1

this is all leaked to the NYT

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

Leaks:

- Suspect name (NBC/CBS)
- Crime scene pics bag / device (NYT)
- Device spec (NBC)
- Bomber ID process (NBC)
- Al Qaeda link (NBC)

the UK people are running out of forms of words to convey they fury at all this in public