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Author Topic: Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)  (Read 310665 times)
bergeroo
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« Reply #1275 on: November 24, 2021, 09:21:09 PM »

Pokerpops and RickBFA - have either of you heard about this thing. It is coming soon. It is inevitable. It is called..... THE FUTURE.

At some point nobody had debit and credit cards and now everyone does. At some point nobody had internet banking and the internet didn't even exist. There was even a time before computers! Things change. If you get in and use something early you can even get extra benefits for being ahead of the curve.

For the average British bloke with a steady job, a mortgage, good credit rating and a bank account then yeah, probably you don't ever need to use crypto. That's true. The financial system in the UK is working and regulated and relatively ok. Gambling is completely legal and tax free.

 But everyone in the world isn't the same as that. Some people can't get a debit card, or a Paypal account. Some people live in countries where they can't trust banks, or their national currency is a joke. Some people live in America and want to play online poker but it is illegal and has been for 10 years. Some people want to send money quickly and efficiently over borders in a matter of hours for reasonable fees, rather than waiting weeks and and/or getting gouged on fees by someone like Western Union or their bank. Just open up your imagination a bit and think about all the ways that cryptocurrency could be useful if your circumstances were different.

And the argument that crypto is used to fuel illicit transactions always makes me laugh. How many times in history have there been drug deals or arms deals paid for with bags full of money. Police find a stash of drugs and a stack of cash. At no point does anyone ever say, we shouldn't use US$ as it is fuelling illegal transactions. Ban dollars!

It is a currency it has value, you can use it to buy things. Bitcoin and other cryptos are also a currency. So you can use it to buy pizza, a beer or also drugs and guns. The same as you can use pounds or dollars. If the buyer and the seller both want to do a transaction in crypto then it is just as viable as in pounds and often more convenient. If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.

I wonder what the line is on the time you can use Bitcoin to pay for your weekly Asda grocery shop? I don't think it will be long to be honest.

Yes many cryptos are crap, but many FIAT currencies are also shaky. How many FIAT currencies would you be comfortable in holding for a long period of time or investing in? Probably not too many. Yet there are over 100 currencies around the world. Same for crypto, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I'd rather store my wealth in bitcoin than in 80 or 90% of FIAT currencies in the world. So no wonder people might prefer to use it than the Tanzanian Shilling.


Interesting post this and some good points on crypto used for illicit stuff being kind of a non factor, anyway thanks.

I get some of it but do struggle with the intrinsic value aspect versus say a promise from the Fed or the B of E.

One thing I'm certain of though, I wish I'd shelved all my cynicism and fear of getting burned and invested small and regular loseable amounts in btc !

One thing that Haralabob talks about in the podcast I linked to is that how everyone in Bitcoin is filled with regret. Even the people who became millionaires could still have got in earlier, they could have invested more. Why did they take profit when Bitcoin was $4k? Why did they diversify into altcoins instead of leaving it in BTC. Regret is the common thread linking all crypto currency investors big or small!
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« Reply #1276 on: November 24, 2021, 11:54:49 PM »

Pokerpops and RickBFA - have either of you heard about this thing. It is coming soon. It is inevitable. It is called..... THE FUTURE.

At some point nobody had debit and credit cards and now everyone does. At some point nobody had internet banking and the internet didn't even exist. There was even a time before computers! Things change. If you get in and use something early you can even get extra benefits for being ahead of the curve.

For the average British bloke with a steady job, a mortgage, good credit rating and a bank account then yeah, probably you don't ever need to use crypto. That's true. The financial system in the UK is working and regulated and relatively ok. Gambling is completely legal and tax free.

 But everyone in the world isn't the same as that. Some people can't get a debit card, or a Paypal account. Some people live in countries where they can't trust banks, or their national currency is a joke. Some people live in America and want to play online poker but it is illegal and has been for 10 years. Some people want to send money quickly and efficiently over borders in a matter of hours for reasonable fees, rather than waiting weeks and and/or getting gouged on fees by someone like Western Union or their bank. Just open up your imagination a bit and think about all the ways that cryptocurrency could be useful if your circumstances were different.

And the argument that crypto is used to fuel illicit transactions always makes me laugh. How many times in history have there been drug deals or arms deals paid for with bags full of money. Police find a stash of drugs and a stack of cash. At no point does anyone ever say, we shouldn't use US$ as it is fuelling illegal transactions. Ban dollars!

It is a currency it has value, you can use it to buy things. Bitcoin and other cryptos are also a currency. So you can use it to buy pizza, a beer or also drugs and guns. The same as you can use pounds or dollars. If the buyer and the seller both want to do a transaction in crypto then it is just as viable as in pounds and often more convenient. If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.

I wonder what the line is on the time you can use Bitcoin to pay for your weekly Asda grocery shop? I don't think it will be long to be honest.

Yes many cryptos are crap, but many FIAT currencies are also shaky. How many FIAT currencies would you be comfortable in holding for a long period of time or investing in? Probably not too many. Yet there are over 100 currencies around the world. Same for crypto, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I'd rather store my wealth in bitcoin than in 80 or 90% of FIAT currencies in the world. So no wonder people might prefer to use it than the Tanzanian Shilling.


Interesting post this and some good points on crypto used for illicit stuff being kind of a non factor, anyway thanks.

I get some of it but do struggle with the intrinsic value aspect versus say a promise from the Fed or the B of E.

One thing I'm certain of though, I wish I'd shelved all my cynicism and fear of getting burned and invested small and regular loseable amounts in btc !

One thing that Haralabob talks about in the podcast I linked to is that how everyone in Bitcoin is filled with regret. Even the people who became millionaires could still have got in earlier, they could have invested more. Why did they take profit when Bitcoin was $4k? Why did they diversify into altcoins instead of leaving it in BTC. Regret is the common thread linking all crypto currency investors big or small!

I’ve lived long enough to experience all those newfangled things you mention. I appreciate the future and the opportunities it presents.

I’ve also lived long enough to see that pyramid schemes are only good for early adopters (and very bad for late entrants)
Long enough to know that eventually all bubbles burst.
Long enough to know that the final regret for all those crypto investors will be not having sold when they could still do so…


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« Reply #1277 on: November 25, 2021, 08:06:36 AM »

.... If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.
...

But - unless all your suppliers are using BTC then at some point you need to convert BTC to $ (or £'s or whatever)

If you did that on the 21st Jan 21 you'd get about $22,500 per BTC
But if you did it on the 21st Feb 21, you'd get nearer $41,000
on the 21st May you'd get $26,000
and on the 21st June you'd be down to closer to $22,500 again

All the upswings are good for profit - but how could any reasonable company cope with that volatility?

Surely the few % lost from standard banking transactions is going to work out less in the long term than the massive chunk that could be lost from BTC suddenly halving in value just as you need to get FIAT currency to pay a supplier?
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« Reply #1278 on: November 25, 2021, 02:02:02 PM »

So do you think Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme and eventually all Bitcoin will be worth zero or close to zero?

Pokerpops and RickBFA - have either of you heard about this thing. It is coming soon. It is inevitable. It is called..... THE FUTURE.

At some point nobody had debit and credit cards and now everyone does. At some point nobody had internet banking and the internet didn't even exist. There was even a time before computers! Things change. If you get in and use something early you can even get extra benefits for being ahead of the curve.

For the average British bloke with a steady job, a mortgage, good credit rating and a bank account then yeah, probably you don't ever need to use crypto. That's true. The financial system in the UK is working and regulated and relatively ok. Gambling is completely legal and tax free.

 But everyone in the world isn't the same as that. Some people can't get a debit card, or a Paypal account. Some people live in countries where they can't trust banks, or their national currency is a joke. Some people live in America and want to play online poker but it is illegal and has been for 10 years. Some people want to send money quickly and efficiently over borders in a matter of hours for reasonable fees, rather than waiting weeks and and/or getting gouged on fees by someone like Western Union or their bank. Just open up your imagination a bit and think about all the ways that cryptocurrency could be useful if your circumstances were different.

And the argument that crypto is used to fuel illicit transactions always makes me laugh. How many times in history have there been drug deals or arms deals paid for with bags full of money. Police find a stash of drugs and a stack of cash. At no point does anyone ever say, we shouldn't use US$ as it is fuelling illegal transactions. Ban dollars!

It is a currency it has value, you can use it to buy things. Bitcoin and other cryptos are also a currency. So you can use it to buy pizza, a beer or also drugs and guns. The same as you can use pounds or dollars. If the buyer and the seller both want to do a transaction in crypto then it is just as viable as in pounds and often more convenient. If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.

I wonder what the line is on the time you can use Bitcoin to pay for your weekly Asda grocery shop? I don't think it will be long to be honest.

Yes many cryptos are crap, but many FIAT currencies are also shaky. How many FIAT currencies would you be comfortable in holding for a long period of time or investing in? Probably not too many. Yet there are over 100 currencies around the world. Same for crypto, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I'd rather store my wealth in bitcoin than in 80 or 90% of FIAT currencies in the world. So no wonder people might prefer to use it than the Tanzanian Shilling.


Interesting post this and some good points on crypto used for illicit stuff being kind of a non factor, anyway thanks.

I get some of it but do struggle with the intrinsic value aspect versus say a promise from the Fed or the B of E.

One thing I'm certain of though, I wish I'd shelved all my cynicism and fear of getting burned and invested small and regular loseable amounts in btc !

One thing that Haralabob talks about in the podcast I linked to is that how everyone in Bitcoin is filled with regret. Even the people who became millionaires could still have got in earlier, they could have invested more. Why did they take profit when Bitcoin was $4k? Why did they diversify into altcoins instead of leaving it in BTC. Regret is the common thread linking all crypto currency investors big or small!

I’ve lived long enough to experience all those newfangled things you mention. I appreciate the future and the opportunities it presents.

I’ve also lived long enough to see that pyramid schemes are only good for early adopters (and very bad for late entrants)
Long enough to know that eventually all bubbles burst.
Long enough to know that the final regret for all those crypto investors will be not having sold when they could still do so…



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bergeroo
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« Reply #1279 on: November 25, 2021, 02:29:17 PM »

Basically my point is that if you are an individual or a company who regularly exchanges money over national borders or deal in lots of different countries  and currencies then it makes sense to think about having some of your financial assets held in Bitcoin and see how open your trading partners are open to it. You should at least investigate this rather than dismissing it outright.

No way should anyone go all in and have all of their assets in crypto, let alone in just one crypto. In the same way that a company probably shouldn't have all their exposure in one FIAT currency or one national economy. Diversification is key. Because one country could experience an ecomonic crash or a 'black swan' event and a FIAT currency could also experience a big drop.

Clearly Bitcoin is more volatile than the dollar or the pound and is different from a FIAT currency. So unless you are trying to time the market then you are going to have to deal with the swings. Obviously some people prefer the stability of dealing with pounds, dollars or euros and that's fine. That's what you are paying your fees to banks and currency exchange brokers for - stability and piece of mind. Established financial institutions have monetised these feelings very well.

As an aside, a theme that has developed from a few posters seems to be that because crypto doesn't have any relevance in their everyday life right now it should just be described as useless or called a scam,pyramid or ponzi. I just think that is very closed minded and short termist. Many young people are living more of their life online and since the pandemic and lot more older people are too. With that in mind there is no reason why digital art through NFTs and crytocurrency shouldn't thrive or be as succesful as FIAT currency or physical art.

Personally I don't trust the state and the government very much, so I think having some decentralised assets is a good thing as a protection and hedge against the world going completely tits up and the global economy collapsing.

Bitcoin is not the same as the 200th ranked coin in the crypto rankings on Coinmarketcap. In the same way - shares in Apple are not the same as a penny stock or the US Dollar is not the same as Argentinian Peso.

You shouldn't use a broad brush to lump all crypto in together. Some cryptocurrencies will fail. Some companies will go bankrupt. Some FIAT currencies will devalue.

Bitcoin is established now, like it or not. It has provenance. Large financial institutions are getting involved and dipping their toe in. It is being legitimized.




.... If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.
...

But - unless all your suppliers are using BTC then at some point you need to convert BTC to $ (or £'s or whatever)

If you did that on the 21st Jan 21 you'd get about $22,500 per BTC
But if you did it on the 21st Feb 21, you'd get nearer $41,000
on the 21st May you'd get $26,000
and on the 21st June you'd be down to closer to $22,500 again

All the upswings are good for profit - but how could any reasonable company cope with that volatility?

Surely the few % lost from standard banking transactions is going to work out less in the long term than the massive chunk that could be lost from BTC suddenly halving in value just as you need to get FIAT currency to pay a supplier?
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Jon MW
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« Reply #1280 on: November 25, 2021, 04:35:11 PM »

I agree that now some institutional investors have got involved then it means that BTC certainly has a lot more potential to be a legitmate asset, but I have some thoughts

" one country could experience an ecomonic crash or a 'black swan' event and a FIAT currency could also experience a big drop."

You don't get more of a crash than 2008. That led to sterling falling by about 30%, the Brexit result lead to sterling falling by about 16% - those were big financial shocks

BTC has fallen by 25% in Jan 2021, 21% in Feb 2021, nearly 20% in March 2021, 21% in April 2021, 70% in May 2021 - a more bullish end to the year but still a 12.5% fall in Sep 21 and a 14% fall in Nov 21

You might need to hedge against fluctuations in the solid FIAT currencies but big shocks might happen twice a decade - you'd be lucky at the moment to get that down to twice a year with BTC

You might pay banks for piece of mind but you don't pay for stability - the stability comes from the underlying economy and monetary and fiscal policies of the country it's attached to - that's why the US dollar and the Euro are reserve currencies around the world and not the Argentinian peso. If a FIAT currency is fundamentally weak - you just avoid it. And personally I think you primarily pay banks - because they provide a service, it might be a lot easier now with the internet; but it's still a service they're providing.

Going back to business - how does that work?

If you want to buy a shipping containers worth of, completely legal, product from Europe to the US. Say the value of that product is currently a million dollars

Do you pay the equivalent in BTC when you sign the contract? When it actually gets shipped? When it arrives? 30 days from when the invoice arrives?

Because depending on timing you might actually pay half a million dollars worth of BTC for it - or 2 million dollars worth of BTC for it

How could either side of that transaction work on any kind of financial planning with that level of uncertainty?

A lot comes back to an idea I've repeated in this thread - is there a record of how much Bitcoins have been used for actual transactional purposes anywhere?

The more BTC is used to actually buy things - the more stable the value will be, and the more stable the value will be - the more people can actually use them to buy things.

At the moment I'd guess it's a tiny amount, but it should at least be something that is measurable.
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« Reply #1281 on: November 25, 2021, 05:22:25 PM »

So do you think Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme and eventually all Bitcoin will be worth zero or close to zero?

Pokerpops and RickBFA - have either of you heard about this thing. It is coming soon. It is inevitable. It is called..... THE FUTURE.

At some point nobody had debit and credit cards and now everyone does. At some point nobody had internet banking and the internet didn't even exist. There was even a time before computers! Things change. If you get in and use something early you can even get extra benefits for being ahead of the curve.

For the average British bloke with a steady job, a mortgage, good credit rating and a bank account then yeah, probably you don't ever need to use crypto. That's true. The financial system in the UK is working and regulated and relatively ok. Gambling is completely legal and tax free.

 But everyone in the world isn't the same as that. Some people can't get a debit card, or a Paypal account. Some people live in countries where they can't trust banks, or their national currency is a joke. Some people live in America and want to play online poker but it is illegal and has been for 10 years. Some people want to send money quickly and efficiently over borders in a matter of hours for reasonable fees, rather than waiting weeks and and/or getting gouged on fees by someone like Western Union or their bank. Just open up your imagination a bit and think about all the ways that cryptocurrency could be useful if your circumstances were different.

And the argument that crypto is used to fuel illicit transactions always makes me laugh. How many times in history have there been drug deals or arms deals paid for with bags full of money. Police find a stash of drugs and a stack of cash. At no point does anyone ever say, we shouldn't use US$ as it is fuelling illegal transactions. Ban dollars!

It is a currency it has value, you can use it to buy things. Bitcoin and other cryptos are also a currency. So you can use it to buy pizza, a beer or also drugs and guns. The same as you can use pounds or dollars. If the buyer and the seller both want to do a transaction in crypto then it is just as viable as in pounds and often more convenient. If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.

I wonder what the line is on the time you can use Bitcoin to pay for your weekly Asda grocery shop? I don't think it will be long to be honest.

Yes many cryptos are crap, but many FIAT currencies are also shaky. How many FIAT currencies would you be comfortable in holding for a long period of time or investing in? Probably not too many. Yet there are over 100 currencies around the world. Same for crypto, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I'd rather store my wealth in bitcoin than in 80 or 90% of FIAT currencies in the world. So no wonder people might prefer to use it than the Tanzanian Shilling.


Interesting post this and some good points on crypto used for illicit stuff being kind of a non factor, anyway thanks.

I get some of it but do struggle with the intrinsic value aspect versus say a promise from the Fed or the B of E.

One thing I'm certain of though, I wish I'd shelved all my cynicism and fear of getting burned and invested small and regular loseable amounts in btc !

One thing that Haralabob talks about in the podcast I linked to is that how everyone in Bitcoin is filled with regret. Even the people who became millionaires could still have got in earlier, they could have invested more. Why did they take profit when Bitcoin was $4k? Why did they diversify into altcoins instead of leaving it in BTC. Regret is the common thread linking all crypto currency investors big or small!

I’ve lived long enough to experience all those newfangled things you mention. I appreciate the future and the opportunities it presents.

I’ve also lived long enough to see that pyramid schemes are only good for early adopters (and very bad for late entrants)
Long enough to know that eventually all bubbles burst.
Long enough to know that the final regret for all those crypto investors will be not having sold when they could still do so…




I think it’s more likely that any given crypto currency falls to zero value than not.
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« Reply #1282 on: November 25, 2021, 05:53:52 PM »

You could be right as there actually thousands of them. But I'm asking you about Bitcoin specifically because I think that is the most established and stable crypto. If you think Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme, then I think I am not smart enough or know enough about it to change your mind and I'm sure you'll continue to have a great life without it.
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« Reply #1283 on: November 25, 2021, 07:38:06 PM »



One thing that Haralabob talks about in the podcast I linked to is that how everyone in Bitcoin is filled with regret. Even the people who became millionaires could still have got in earlier, they could have invested more. Why did they take profit when Bitcoin was $4k? Why did they diversify into altcoins instead of leaving it in BTC. Regret is the common thread linking all crypto currency investors big or small!
[/quote]

Pretty common to any form of punting/trading/investing tbf.

I day traded full time for a year in 1999 when I was a bit more prone to risk taking. I didn't know much about a lot of the companies and their intrinsic value and even when I had a pretty good idea that the intrinsic value was next to zero I could read charts and momentum so there was money to be made.

Despite good scores and a pretty profitable year I have a much better recall of the opportunities I missed, and often these missed opportunities, of the time, were companies that later ceased to trade.

I feel like that about btc. I still feel pretty sure it will have a very bad time again because as much as I read and try to 'get it', I still think it is a medium for speculation primarily. Which of course, means there is plenty of money to be made until there isn't. I wish I was smart enough and risk averse enough to take advantage of it.

By the way, while I think btc doesn't facilitate or drive illicit activities anymore than a world with only fiat currencies, I do think it's convenience for illicit transactions is probably a decent driver in propping up the valuations.

On a separate note and this isn't really a fact, more just playing devils advocate .. it can't really be seen as an alternative to fiat currency generally until the volatility is massively reduced, punting only works based on volume and small margins (like currency trading today) and companies regularly price their goods in btc only as opposed to accept payments in btc (based on a fiat currency price).

Anyway, fill yr boots if you have the right mentality for it :-)
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« Reply #1284 on: November 25, 2021, 07:40:14 PM »

You could be right as there actually thousands of them. But I'm asking you about Bitcoin specifically because I think that is the most established and stable crypto. If you think Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme, then I think I am not smart enough or know enough about it to change your mind and I'm sure you'll continue to have a great life without it.

No, I don’t think bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. I used that as an example of situations where greed overcomes sense.

I do think that bitcoin is a ‘product’ with no intrinsic worth which is subject to unfathomable influences over it’s value.

I do think that it has a significantly greater than zero probability of being effectively worthless. It’s carbon footprint alone should hasten it’s fall.

https://fortune.com/2021/11/06/offsetting-bitcoins-carbon-footprint-would-require-planting-300-million-new-trees/

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« Reply #1285 on: November 25, 2021, 07:42:39 PM »

Just read Jon's post and so realise I'm saying less eloquently a bit of what he says in terms of it being viewed as currency.
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« Reply #1286 on: January 04, 2022, 11:40:44 PM »

You could be right as there actually thousands of them. But I'm asking you about Bitcoin specifically because I think that is the most established and stable crypto. If you think Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme, then I think I am not smart enough or know enough about it to change your mind and I'm sure you'll continue to have a great life without it.

No, I don’t think bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. I used that as an example of situations where greed overcomes sense.

I do think that bitcoin is a ‘product’ with no intrinsic worth which is subject to unfathomable influences over it’s value.

I do think that it has a significantly greater than zero probability of being effectively worthless. It’s carbon footprint alone should hasten it’s fall.

https://fortune.com/2021/11/06/offsetting-bitcoins-carbon-footprint-would-require-planting-300-million-new-trees/



And that's why I was surprised to read about the governments plan for a Centralised Digital Currency announced by Sunak (Oct, I think, can't remember when). I really thought the Zero Carbon drive would prevent DC becoming a serious contender for a country's potential main currency (but then China introduced their coin and have Russia just launched theirs as well? I know another country did, can't remember which one).

Centralised DC is more concerning to me than Decentralised. The planned Brit Coin worries me....the Government think tank group meeting 'minutes' talk of it being 'programmable'...hmmmmm, how? Will it be able to 'potentially' block transactions. I've seen the Mastercard Pilot scheme already has the voluntary option of 'Carbon Footprint' purchase allowance per month (this might be USA only at the moment, no idea how many have signed up for it either).

As for the volatility of BTC, will this not finally settle down once all coins have been mined? I'm quite new to crypto in the grand scheme of things. A genuine question for any experts out there.

I never understood crypto, but thought I should try to at least learn about it because I think it's more than likely coming one day. It won't be an overnight thing though, probably the government digital Currency (if it happens) and Fiat will run side by side for what, maybe a decade? Who knows.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 11:45:55 PM by HOLDorFOLD » Logged

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« Reply #1287 on: January 04, 2022, 11:55:36 PM »

Pokerpops and RickBFA - have either of you heard about this thing. It is coming soon. It is inevitable. It is called..... THE FUTURE.

At some point nobody had debit and credit cards and now everyone does. At some point nobody had internet banking and the internet didn't even exist. There was even a time before computers! Things change. If you get in and use something early you can even get extra benefits for being ahead of the curve.

For the average British bloke with a steady job, a mortgage, good credit rating and a bank account then yeah, probably you don't ever need to use crypto. That's true. The financial system in the UK is working and regulated and relatively ok. Gambling is completely legal and tax free.

 But everyone in the world isn't the same as that. Some people can't get a debit card, or a Paypal account. Some people live in countries where they can't trust banks, or their national currency is a joke. Some people live in America and want to play online poker but it is illegal and has been for 10 years. Some people want to send money quickly and efficiently over borders in a matter of hours for reasonable fees, rather than waiting weeks and and/or getting gouged on fees by someone like Western Union or their bank. Just open up your imagination a bit and think about all the ways that cryptocurrency could be useful if your circumstances were different.

And the argument that crypto is used to fuel illicit transactions always makes me laugh. How many times in history have there been drug deals or arms deals paid for with bags full of money. Police find a stash of drugs and a stack of cash. At no point does anyone ever say, we shouldn't use US$ as it is fuelling illegal transactions. Ban dollars!

It is a currency it has value, you can use it to buy things. Bitcoin and other cryptos are also a currency. So you can use it to buy pizza, a beer or also drugs and guns. The same as you can use pounds or dollars. If the buyer and the seller both want to do a transaction in crypto then it is just as viable as in pounds and often more convenient. If you want to change pounds to dollars, you can shop around but you are going to lose a few % everytime you change it. Perhaps not a big deal for a few trips to the Rhino in Vegas, but if you are a business then this kind of thing adds up.

I wonder what the line is on the time you can use Bitcoin to pay for your weekly Asda grocery shop? I don't think it will be long to be honest.

Yes many cryptos are crap, but many FIAT currencies are also shaky. How many FIAT currencies would you be comfortable in holding for a long period of time or investing in? Probably not too many. Yet there are over 100 currencies around the world. Same for crypto, there are some good ones and some bad ones. I'd rather store my wealth in bitcoin than in 80 or 90% of FIAT currencies in the world. So no wonder people might prefer to use it than the Tanzanian Shilling.


Technically you can now. I have a coinbase card I preload with crypto. I use that card to buy my latte, the weekly shop, or anywhere that uses card transaction. You have to know what the rate is at any given time...and there is the worry that it might shoot up or down in a matter of hours....but there has been the variance as well. Some days my coffee has cost me more using the coinbase card, and on really good days it's only cost me 50p (for example, I load my card on payday at say 1BTC=38k, then when I buy my coffee three weeks later it's 1BTC=44k....my coffee is cheaper than if I had used my ordinary bank's DD card).

I can't use it lately though.....BTC has crashed since I last loaded some onto it .... but I never put too much on there, just emergency amounts.

(edit - I meant crypto.com, not Coinbase)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 12:10:08 AM by HOLDorFOLD » Logged

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Pokerpops
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« Reply #1288 on: February 22, 2022, 07:40:07 AM »

The best explanation of crypto yet.


https://twitter.com/schap07122529/status/1437018132598693893?s=21
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« Reply #1289 on: February 28, 2022, 12:44:51 AM »

There have been a number of developments this year that have shown why cryptocurrencies are anything on the scale from useful to completely essential and necessary.

We can start with the Canadian government freezing bank accounts of people that it suspected were part of a protest movement. Whether you agree with this protest or not, if this doesn't make you think that all currency being centralised is problematic, then I don't know what will. And let's remember that Canada is generally viewed as a liberal country.

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1493372424674553859

Secondly we can look at the invasion of Ukraine which recently began. Many Ukrainian people want to leave the country, but if their money is in banks, then they could have a lot of trouble getting hold of it. They might not be able to withdraw from ATMs and their bank cards might not work. People reporting on twitter all of their money in banks is frozen and the only funds they can access is crypto.

https://mobile.twitter.com/usleepwalker/status/1497255981851496449?t=hzHOTqJWX4PzC_ZcPbU_-A&s=09

Finally let's look from the other side. It is being talked up that Russia is being removed from the international banking system (ie Swift payments etc). If this is succesful then this means that Russian companies will find it very hard to export. I am sure many people in Russia just want to make a living and run their business and don't support an invasion like this. If Russian businesses use crypto then they can continue.
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