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Author Topic: Potential Introduction of Deposit Limits  (Read 10765 times)
nirvana
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« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2021, 07:37:08 PM »

Surely we need to compare problem gamblers to total UK gamblers rather than the full UK population?

I think there should be a threshold where you have to prove you can afford your losses.



Very good point from the highly intelligent Hopkin here
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StuartHopkin
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« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2021, 07:47:21 PM »

Surely we need to compare problem gamblers to total UK gamblers rather than the full UK population?

I think there should be a threshold where you have to prove you can afford your losses.




So that would apply to your average Joe and millionaires alike?

Yep

Threshold means weekly lottery tickets, grand national punters and Saturday footy accumulators aren't affected.

Let's call it 100 loss a week as a threshold, if you want to be able to lose/risk more than that you have to be able to show that you can both afford it and understand what you are doing.

Average Joe and Mr Millionaire the same, either income or savings etc
But recognition for people like Arb too that can show they aren't losing.

They should have a duty of care to not destroy peoples lives and to know where the money is coming from.



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arbboy
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2021, 08:03:57 PM »

It's the stupidity of a weekly deposit limit that makes no sense.   I could easily have a big losing day/week/month or huge ante post portfolio on football/cheltenham which is all deposits and no returns for months.   I could see be depositing a serious chunk into betfair so i never realistically have to deposit again and get around the deposit limits which prove nothing in many cases.  

If i deposited £100k into betfair before the rules changed i would probably never have to make another deposit into betfair in my life.   I could have huge losing days/weeks but never deposit to alert whoever that i have lost more than the set limit.   Then just withdraw my wages as and when i see fit.   There are so many things that haven't been thought out about it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 08:08:08 PM by arbboy » Logged
doubleup
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« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2021, 11:16:25 PM »

They have had 13k responses, so I would guess that although a lot of them will just be "how very dare you" most of the problems with the plan will have been highlighted.

Horse/sports/poker players seem to have been saying that casino games are the issue and not their particular poison.  The only way that the GC is going to buy that is if problem gambling is significantly lower in the "thinking games" and I'd be a bit surprised if that was the case.

I tried to bring up variance as an issue, but not sure that they are ever going to accept any argument that, in effect, is "losers should be allowed to chase" but, hopefully, they will accept that if someone is a winner they should be allowed more leeway that a loser.     
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arbboy
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« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2021, 02:10:55 AM »

i think it actually is the case that the 'can't win casino games' are a much bigger issue with problem gamblers more due to the speed of chasing than the fact they have a gtd house edge against them.    I would imagine the edge against them in sports betting is bigger becaause they are clueless but they can't turn over money every 30 seconds like they can in an online casino which grinds them into the dust so much quicker.
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« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2021, 02:17:21 AM »

there was a reason 20 years ago you had to wait for 48 hours to enter a live casino in the uk after signing up but no such thing exists even now to walk into a betting shop.   Casino gaming is quick turnover/gtd negative edge and high limits.  You will lose a £1000 deposit much quicker in a casino as a mug with 2.75% edge against you than you will with a 5-10% edge against you in sports betting because compounded turnover losses don't kill you every 30 seconds.   If you deposit £500 and bet £100 every 30 seconds on roulette online you should maths wise lose the lot within an hour or so that isn't unlucky just maths taken care of itself.   Try doing that on the horses or football and losing your money that quickly 100% gtd.   It takes 180 £100 spins to neutral ev lose £500.   So betting £100 every 20 seconds online at single zero roulette with the repeat function rapid play button that will happen and be normal.   You have run £200 'good' if you only lost £300 after an hour.  99.9% of punters have no idea this is the maths reality
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 02:30:43 AM by arbboy » Logged
StuartHopkin
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« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2021, 06:38:26 AM »

Yes, my main perception/concern is the online casinos being similar if not worse than the FOTBs were in the shops.

But in this day and age there should be a way to make sure young Terence has sorted his rent before clicking 26 and the neighbours by 10 repeat, repeat, repeat......
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« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2021, 09:08:36 AM »

The idea of having two log-ins, one for casino bullshit and one for sports betting was interesting on the face of it.

Then again you only have to point towards a Paul Merson or Matty Etherington and see that Denise's home page full of Ecudorian L2 womens' football on a Tuesday morning to realise that there ultimately isn't any difference.

I'm with Glenn the puritan here.
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« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2021, 10:23:34 AM »

The idea of having two log-ins, one for casino bullshit and one for sports betting was interesting on the face of it.

Then again you only have to point towards a Paul Merson or Matty Etherington and see that Denise's home page full of Ecudorian L2 womens' football on a Tuesday morning to realise that there ultimately isn't any difference.

I'm with Glenn the puritan here.


Sorry mate, your hair doesn't qualify.
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« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2021, 10:51:18 AM »

Smiley

Almost said I was about to put an end to the good-hair theory.
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mikeymike2
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« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2021, 11:03:58 AM »

For those that think financial checks are the way forward - do not be surprised or have your feelings hurt - when down the road you go into a restaurant, off license, pub or even to book a holiday and they ask to see your financial situation and if you can afford it or should you be putting that money into a pension for your old age rather than buying that bottle of gin.

Come to think of it we should ban people like me from buying racehorses and greyhounds - as very few of us see a return - then we could shut down a lot of the football clubs who if it was not for their owners and supporters, most are in deficit, rugby clubs et al - anything that will potentially lose money - shut it down.

Lets close down these investment platforms 90 percent lose their money - why do we not ban risk completely - thus no more births - no people - no risk.

Since after WW2 we have become a world that likes to introduce more regulations and rules - strange we now have more poverty - more kids cant read or write, the gap between the rich and poor has grown - for those Sci Fi readers - remember the things people laughed at (that will never happen) mobile phones - video calls - space travel - the list is endless - perhaps George Orwell was on to something.  
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bergeroo
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« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2021, 11:27:08 AM »

For those that think financial checks are the way forward - do not be surprised or have your feelings hurt - when down the road you go into a restaurant, off license, pub or even to book a holiday and they ask to see your financial situation and if you can afford it or should you be putting that money into a pension for your old age rather than buying that bottle of gin.

Come to think of it we should ban people like me from buying racehorses and greyhounds - as very few of us see a return - then we could shut down a lot of the football clubs who if it was not for their owners and supporters, most are in deficit, rugby clubs et al - anything that will potentially lose money - shut it down.

Lets close down these investment platforms 90 percent lose their money - why do we not ban risk completely - thus no more births - no people - no risk.

Since after WW2 we have become a world that likes to introduce more regulations and rules - strange we now have more poverty - more kids cant read or write, the gap between the rich and poor has grown - for those Sci Fi readers - remember the things people laughed at (that will never happen) mobile phones - video calls - space travel - the list is endless - perhaps George Orwell was on to something.  

I don't really get your point here at all?
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Ledders
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« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2021, 12:09:40 PM »

#accidentallyleftwing
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RED-DOG
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« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2021, 12:11:06 PM »

For those that think financial checks are the way forward - do not be surprised or have your feelings hurt - when down the road you go into a restaurant, off license, pub or even to book a holiday and they ask to see your financial situation and if you can afford it or should you be putting that money into a pension for your old age rather than buying that bottle of gin.

Come to think of it we should ban people like me from buying racehorses and greyhounds - as very few of us see a return - then we could shut down a lot of the football clubs who if it was not for their owners and supporters, most are in deficit, rugby clubs et al - anything that will potentially lose money - shut it down.

Lets close down these investment platforms 90 percent lose their money - why do we not ban risk completely - thus no more births - no people - no risk.

Since after WW2 we have become a world that likes to introduce more regulations and rules - strange we now have more poverty - more kids cant read or write, the gap between the rich and poor has grown - for those Sci Fi readers - remember the things people laughed at (that will never happen) mobile phones - video calls - space travel - the list is endless - perhaps George Orwell was on to something.  

I don't really get your point here at all?


What I think he's saying, and I hope he'll forgive me if I'm wrong, is that you have to be very careful about letting go of one freedom because more often than not it leads to the loss of several others.




    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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RED-DOG
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« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2021, 12:33:34 PM »

There is a new law coming that will make trespass a criminal offence, it is designed specifically to target Gypsies and Travellers.

Most people will think it's a great idea... Until they get on the wrong side of it.
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